View Full Version : Homeschooling rules can't have been seen by an attorney
Architectlink
July 9th, 2009, 10:12 PM
Dear Brenda Dickinson, Beth Gillespie and Sonny Hester, FHSAA writer of the attached FLORIDA Home Ed document that arbitrarily penalizes some Florida homeschool students from obtaining their diplomas.
These poorly reviewed rules below are being used by guidance counselors to prohibit homeschooled children from taking their courses for credit outside the home and from getting their diplomas. These conflicting rules are keeping brightest and the best students out of the public school system we are ALL paying for? Doesn’t the general public need to know the catch-22 that is taking place by bureaucrats using OUR tax dollars?
Their rule # 3: “Parents who teach their children at home through one of these schools are actually teachers in a PRIVATE school”
Directly Contradicts Their rule # 7: A home education program as defined in s. 1002.01(1) must be directed by the parent.
AND contradicts Their rule #5: “Can a student be registered in a Florida private school, for record keeping purposes only, and be eligible for extracurricular activities? No.
Wait a minute! ANY attorney can probably explain to that one can’t change direction in each subsequent rule.
Their rule # 7 should read: “Home education students <ARE being PENALIZED BECAUSE THEY> do not receive school district diplomas.”
And this contradiction is being misunderstood by coaches and guidance counselors daily in Florida:
Your Rule # 8: Can a student take the MAJORITY of his/her courses in a Florida private or public school while registered in a home education program? No.
Please ADD Clarification to Rule #8A: A student should be legally allowed according to the above law to take the MINORITY of his/her courses in a Florida private or public school while registered in a home education program as long as it does not count as the majority of the classes? YES.
Does the general public really understand that public school administrators are penalizing the best and the brightest students OUT of the public school system so that there are only the failures are left in the public schools?
Did administrators force Tim Tebow’s mother to isolate Tim so that he could participate in public school sports and be isolated from ALL other homeschool programs (to penalize him for being homeschooled?)
Please re-read thier rules below and PLEASE remove contradictory statements from rules 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 below.
Please help us clarify challenge confusing state laws which keep GOOD parents from doing what is best for their children, and for society. Please let my tax dollars pay to let the smartest and brightest back into the school system!
Architectlink
July 9th, 2009, 10:18 PM
HERE ARE THE PUBLISHED RULES WITH CLARIFICATIONS IN ALL CAPS
Frequently Asked Questions: Home Education Student Eligibility for Interscholastic Extracurricular Activities with Florida High School Athletic Association (FHSAA)
By Brenda Dickinson, Beth Gillespie and Sonny Hester, FHSAA (original attached BELOW)
1. Are home education students eligible for interscholastic extracurricular activities?
Yes. Home education students who meet the standards for participation in interscholastic extracurricular activities (s.1006.15 F.S.) and the requirements of the Home Education
Program (s.1002.41 F.S.) are eligible.
2. Is a student taught at home through a Florida private school a home education student?
No. According to Florida Statute a parent must choose one way to comply with regular attendance under the compulsory attendance law.
F.S.1003.01 (13) “Regular school attendance” means the actual attendance of a student during the school day as defined by law and rules of the State Board of Education. Regular attendance within the intent of s. 1003.21 F.S. may be achieved by attendance in:
(a) A public school supported by public funds;
(b) A parochial, religious, or denominational school;
(c) A private school supported in whole or in part by tuition charges or by endowments or gifts;
(d) A home education program that meets the requirements of chapter 1002; OR
(e) A private tutoring program that meets the requirements of chapter 1002.
Notice the OR between (d) and (e). It is not an AND. Although many organizations tell parents that they can “home school” their children three ways, Florida law provides < NO WAY FOR A DIPLOMA> only one way.
Therefore, a student is only eligible for extracurricular activities (s.1006.15 F.S.) by registering With the school district in a Home Education Program and meeting the requirements of s. 1002.41 F.S. <THIS REQUIREMENT FORCES HOMESCHOOL CHILDREN TO ISOLATE FROM ALL OTHER POTENTIAL LEARNING PROGRAMS>
A student cannot be enrolled/registered as a full-time student, working toward high school Completion or a diploma with a Florida private school at the same time he/she is registered in a home education program. <IN OTHER WORDS HOME PROGRAM KIDS MUST STAY INSIDE ALL DAY AND NOT PARTICIPATE WITH ANY OTHER CHURCH OR SCHOOL FUNCTIONS, LEST THEY LOSE THEIR ELIGIBILITY>
3. Does Florida law distinguish between the various kinds of private schools?
No. A private school by any name is a Florida private school if it has a Florida Department of Education school number. Private or religious schools in Florida are not required to have a physical location or have certified teachers. Although there are many names for private schools or religious schools, such as umbrella school, correspondence school, non-traditional private school or a “600” school, the Florida Statutes do not recognize those names for schools. Those are descriptive names which have circulated for years. Parents who teach their children at home through one of these schools are actually teachers in a private school and must keep the attendance records required by s. 1003.23 F.S. Home education programs are specifically exempted from these requirements. <ANOTHER CONTRADICTORY REQUIREMENT WHICH TIES THE HANDS OF PARENTS TRYING TO TEACH THEIR CHILDREN>
WAIT A MINUTE! ALL PARENTS ARE TEACHERS IN A PRIVATE SCHOOL!?! THEN THAT MAKES US INELIGIBLE FOR ALL SPORTS ACTIVITIES!
4. How does a student meet the conditions of “regular attendance?” There are two different measures of “regular attendance.”
A private school or religious school student must “attend” school a certain number of hours or days as designated by s. 1003.23 F.S. and the Florida Administrative Code 6A-1.09512.
A home education student under s. 1002.41 F.S. must submit an annual evaluation to the Superintendent or the home education designee in the county in which the student resides.
5. Can a student be registered in a Florida private school, for record keeping purposes only, and be eligible for extracurricular activities?
No. A student registered or enrolled in a Florida private school is a private school student, regardless of the name or terminology used for that school. According to s. 1002.42 F.S. private schools in Florida are required to register with the Florida Department of Education and are assigned a school number. Private school students must qualify for Bright Futures Scholarships by documenting certain courses and having a specified GPA. Teachers must
keep attendance records and follow the curriculum specified by the private school. The school maintains the transcripts and issues a diploma.
6. Can a student be enrolled in an out-of-state private school and be eligible for extracurricular activities?
<YES BUT THEN THE CHILD DOES NOT MEET THE REQUIREMENTS OF ATTENDANCE???>
Yes. Out-of-state correspondence schools, such as Bob Jones, Calvert or the American School, generally do not have a Florida private school number. Therefore, students registered in a school or program without a Florida school number do not meet the requirements of s. 1003.01(13) F.S. for attendance purposes and must be registered in a home education program in the county in which the student resides. <AND WILL NOT GET A DIPLOMA>
7. Does home education have to take place solely in the home. <WAIT, THIS CONFLICTS WITH STATEMENT #3 ABOVE>
No. A home education program as defined in s. 1002.01(1) must be directed by the parent. The parent must maintain the portfolio and submit the annual evaluation to the superintendent’s/ designee’s office. However, parents have many educational options from which to choose.
Some of those options are correspondence courses, video courses, online courses, the Florida Virtual School, dual enrollment (only for 11 & 12th grade), early admission, part-time enrollment in a public School (NOT ALLOWED IN OUR DISTRICT) or private school, cooperatives formed by parents, and tutors.
Home education students <ARE PENALIZED BECAUSE THEY> do not receive school district diplomas. There are other avenues for diplomas, including those issued by the parent or the student can take the GED and receive a State of Florida diploma. Home education students may also earn an AA or AS
diploma at a community college through dual enrollment, early admission or after completion of a home education program. A home education student may earn a diploma from an outof-
State correspondence school, such as the American School and University of Nebraska-
Lincoln. A list of regionally accredited correspondence programs can be found on the Florida Department of Education website at: http://www.floridaschoolchoice.org/information/home_
education/regionac.asp.
8. Can a student take the majority of his/her courses in a Florida private or public school while registered in a home education program?
<PLEASE CLARIFY THAT A MINORITY OF COURSES LIKE ONE OR TWO A YEAR IS ALLOWED.>
No. The issue is where the student is registered for attendance purposes. If the child takes more than half of his/her courses, reports attendance or earns enough credits to receive a diploma at a single Florida private or public school, then the student becomes a student of that school and is not a home education student. A student registered with the school district’s
Home Education Office, however, may take most or all courses through Florida Virtual School, which does not report attendance or issue diplomas (also see 12B).
<CLARIFICATION REQUIRED HERE: HOWEVER, IF the child takes LESS than half of his/her courses, reports attendance or earns enough credits to receive a diploma at a single Florida private or public school, then the student WILL STILL BE STILL ELIGIBLE FOR PARTICIPATION IN SPORTS AND IS CONSIDERED a home education student under the dual enrollment clause listed above.>
As noted in question #2, s. 1003.01(13) F.S. regular attendance requires a choice. A student cannot be enrolled in two options <CLARIFICATION UNLESS THEY TAKE LESS THAN HALF THEIR COURSES AT OTHER SCHOOLS.>
Either the parent maintains the records in a home education
program <AND IS DENIED THEIR DIPLOMA AS A HOMESCHOOLER???> OR the Florida private school maintains the records and the student is eligible to
receive a diploma from the private school. <AND IS DENIED ACCESS TO THE PUBLIC SCHOOL CLASSES AND ACTIVITIES>
9. What are the consequences for a student being enrolled in a home education program and a private school at the same time? <A DIPLOMA Vs. HIGHER TEST SCORES???>
Athletics are very competitive and the stakes are high. Winning a state championship is what drives many coaches and parents. A student who is registered in both a home education program and a Florida private school during the same school year could be reported to the FHSAA and found ineligible to participate in extracurricular activities.
<EVEN THOUGH MANY SCHOOLS ARE PULLING OUT OF SPORTS, THIS TYPE OF EXTORSION SHOULD BE ILLEGIAL TO TAXPAYERS WHO HAVE THE RIGHT TO PLAY IN THEIR DISTRICTS>
If a school has an ineligible player on the team, regardless of the reason, the entire team could be disqualified for the state play-off series and required to forfeit all games in which the ineligible player participated. This happened in 2004 to a home education cooperative which had reached the state baseball play-off series. The team was disqualified and all the students on the team lost their chance to play for a state title. <EXTORSION AGAINST HOMESCHOOL CHILDREN>PLAYERS SHOULD BE ELIGIBLE IF THEY LIVE IN THE DISTRICT THEY ARE ZONED FOR, AND SHOULD NOT BE SUBJECTED TO EXTORSION LIKE THIS.
Parents need to carefully consider the consequences for not only their child, but other students who have worked so hard to participate in extracurricular activities.
10. Are home education students required to declare a grade level to participate in extracurricular activities?
Yes. To be eligible for extracurricular activities a home education student must declare a grade level when submitting the FHSAA EL7 form Registration Form for Home Education Students to Participate in Athletic Program at Member School http://www.fhsaa.org/forms/pdf/
EL07_home_reg.pdf . Students are also required to provide proof of immunizations, home address, and GPA.
11. Can home education be used as a means to “red shirt” a student?
No. Home education is defined as sequentially progressive instruction s.1002.01 F.S. and may not be used as a means for “red shirting” a student. There is no “red shirting” in high school.
If a student successfully completes eighth grade, through promotion documented by a public or private school or registration in a home education, then the student is a ninth grader. If the student does not successfully complete eighth grade, then that student, by virtue of grades, may not be eligible for ninth grade athletics and may lose a year of eligibility until the student achieves the required GPA. The FHSAA bylaws only allow 4 years of eligibility in high school athletics beginning in the ninth grade and students are ineligible to participate in athletics upon reaching 19 years and 9 months of age.
Registering a public or private school student in a home education program does not erase the student’s previous documentation of a grade level. Once the student is enrolled in either a public or private school, the time clock begins to run. If a student passes the eighth grade in a public or private school and enrolls in a home education program the next year, the student
will be considered, by the FHSAA, as a ninth grade home education student. The annual evaluation needs to show educational progress commensurate with the child’s ability or the student will be put on probation by the school superintendent in accordance with s.1002.41((2) and the student would be ineligible for participation in athletics based on grades.
12. Can a student participate in extracurricular activities if enrolled in a virtual school? It depends on which virtual school the student is enrolled in.
A) Public Virtual Schools
If the student is enrolled in a virtual school through the school district on a full-time basis and will receive a diploma, then he/she is a public school student. That student is eligible to participate in extracurricular activities at the public school to which he/she is assigned by the school district.
A student who is enrolled full-time in a K-8 virtual school through the school district in the sixth through eighth grade is a public school student. If that student lives in the attendance area of a middle school, which is a member of the FHSAA, the student is eligible to participate in athletics, if he/she meets all the other requirements of s.1006.15 F.S.
If the student is registered with the school district as a home education student and takes part-time classes through a district virtual school, then the student is eligible to participate as a home education student at the zoned public school or at a private school.
B) Florida Virtual School
If the student is registered with the school district as a home education student and takes part-time or full-time classes through the Florida Virtual School, the student is eligible to participate as a home education student. Participation would be at the public school to which the student would be normally assigned according to the district school board attendance area policies.
The student could also choose to attend a public school pursuant to district or interdistrict controlled open enrollment provision, or may develop an agreement to participate at a private school.
C) Out-of-State Virtual Schools
If a student is taking classes through an out-of-state virtual school, then the student must register with the local school district as a home education student to be in compliance with the attendance requirements. The student would then be eligible to participate under the same options as described above in 12 B.
10/2/06; 1/5/07; 7/24/07 This document was co-authored by Brenda Dickinson, Home Education Foundation, and Beth Gillespie, School District of Palm Beach County, in collaboration with Sonny Hester, FHSAA.
Reason&Hope
July 9th, 2009, 11:33 PM
The problem is that legislators write laws without knowing anything about what they're writing laws on. Do you have any homeschool lobbyist organizations in Florida? That's the only way you'll get decent laws on homeschooling.
DrSoup
July 10th, 2009, 12:52 PM
And the FAQ would be more impressive and persuasive without spelling errors such as 'extorsion' (which by the way should be EXTORTION).
As a university professor it is this sort of thing that causes me to worry about the children of unqualified home schooling parents. I have seen too many missives (and some outright rants) from home schooling parents who show severe problems in their own literacy and communication -- and THEY are teaching their own children how to read and write???? I have run across some home schooled students in freshman English who had no business being in my classroom -- with their complete lack of writing and reading competency I am amazed they were granted a diploma in the first place! I had to take them in hand and teach them the basics of sentence structure, paragraph organization and even how to edit their own work for spelling (since it seemed they had never had anyone edit their work for BOTH content AND writing style before) -- skills any student SHOULD have before entering a college/university classroom.
I may be qualified to teach my children how to read and write, but I surely wouldn't try to teach them math because I know that I am not qualified to do so. At least I am aware of my limits. No matter how much I would like to home school, I am sensible enough to know what I can and should try to teach my kids, as well as what I am patentedly incapable of teaching because my own understanding is not up to par.
No matter how many home schooling books or manuals you read/use, there is always the danger that you yourself (as a home schooling parent) do not have the understanding or skills to prepare your child to 'graduate' or get a diploma.
As to the issues presented by the original authors...I have great difficulty with their FAQ, because as a professional proofreader, I see many potential communication errors that make it hard to determine their message at times (since they seem to contradict themselves here and there).
Like I said to begin...the message would be stronger with clearer writing, better editing and fewer errors. If they did indeed send that as a letter to the school board, if I were a member, despite my support for home school in general, I would have to consider if it was in their child's best interest to be schooled by someone who clearly has writing difficulties.
Architectlink
July 10th, 2009, 01:10 PM
Thanks Dr. SOUP for pointing out the "extortion" spelling error and for pointing out that the documents these guidance counselors and coaches are using is so poorly written by school administrators who are supposed to understand english.
You've said in a much BETTER way exactly what I am trying to say --homeschooled parents who are not english majors ARE NOT even ALLOWED TO GET HELP from QUALIFIED teachers without registering for help in a PRIVATE SCHOOL. Once a homeschool mom who wants to help her child in science or chemistry or english or grammar registers for HELP in a certain area almost anyone who is a teacher is also considered by the state to be a PRIVATE school, therefore the public school systems says, "OH OH! You are NOW in a private school, too bad, you cannot participate in sports, or electives, or an of our public school sports because you associate with other PRIVATE schools!.
PS the option of spellchecking and correcting errors has been removed, so I cannot change spelling errors! When it went to cut and paste, a lot of the comments on the original document were lost if they were between brackets> In the effort to clear up my posts I often go back and reread them a few hours later, but this one has had the EDIT feature removed already.
I have a masters degree from UF and usually revise and check posts a number of times after it is posted and I can see what it looks like on the screen...I'm old school I guess. thanks for the heads up.
It is the parents of black children who have the most opportunity to be heard by the politically correct school administration: to have the option of either sending their children to public school where they will get a diploma (and play on sports teams but may end up in the 24th percentile on tests) OR if they choose to homeschool their children, they MUST forgo any sort of group because if they want a diploma for their child, they must associate with other homeschool parents, and then are being forced by the state to file for a PRIVATE school number, which then shoves them out of the system.
Circular logic.
I cannot revise the attachement and can't spellcheck in my browser...sorry but will repost if allowed. THANKS
Architectlink
July 10th, 2009, 01:15 PM
Rule #3 contradicts rule number # 8 which says Parents who teach their children at home…are teachers in a PRIVATE school (thus the children cannot participate in their district sports)
Rule # 8 is being interpreted by schools to say “children cannot participate in their district (sports) IF they take even one or two classes at (an)y private school”.
Rule #2 contradicts both rules above saying: “ a student is only eligible for extracurricular activities (s.1006.15 F.S.) by registering with the school district in a Home Education Program”
Directly Contradicts rule # 7: A home education program as defined in s. 1002.01(1) must be directed by the parent.
AND contradicts rule #5: “Can a student be registered in a Florida private school, for record keeping purposes only, and be eligible for extracurricular activities? No.
Rule # 7 should read: “Home education students <ARE PENALIZED BECAUSE THEY> do not receive school district diplomas.” (therefore homeschoolers are forced to join a private school for covering if they want a diploma)
Rule # 8: Can a student take the MAJORITY of his/her courses in a Florida private or public school while registered in a home education program? No.
Please ADD Clarification to Rule #8A: A student is legally allowed by rule #8 to take the MINORITY of his/her courses in various Florida (private or public) schools while registered in a home education program as long as it does not count as the majority of their classes in any one semester. YES.
Architectlink
July 10th, 2009, 01:51 PM
The problem is that legislators write laws without knowing anything about what they're writing laws on. Do you have any homeschool lobbyist organizations in Florida? That's the only way you'll get decent laws on homeschooling.
The "clarification" document was written by the following public school administrators, not legislators, however many guidance counselors and many principals and private schools are using this to give conflicting information:
10/2/06; 1/5/07; 7/24/07 This document was co-authored by Brenda Dickinson, Home Education Foundation, and Beth Gillespie, School District of Palm Beach County, in collaboration with Sonny Hester, FHSAA.
Architectlink
July 10th, 2009, 01:57 PM
As a university professor ...
I may be qualified to teach my children how to read and write, but I surely wouldn't try to teach them math because I know that I am not qualified to do so. .
http://www.hslda.org/docs/nche/000010/200410250.asp has some compelling facts regarding this issue:
1. In 1997, a study of 5,402 homeschool students from 1,657 families was released. It was entitled, "Strengths of Their Own: Home Schoolers Across America." The study demonstrated that homeschoolers, on the average, out-performed their counterparts in the public schools by 30 to 37 percentile points in all subjects. A significant finding when analyzing the data for 8th graders was the evidence that homeschoolers who are homeschooled two or more years score substantially higher than students who have been homeschooled one year or less. The new homeschoolers were scoring on the average in the 59th percentile compared to students homeschooled the last two or more years who scored between 86th and 92nd percentile. i
Another important finding of Strengths of Their Own was that the race of the student does not make any difference. There was no significant difference between minority and white homeschooled students. For example, in grades K-12, both white and minority students scored, on the average, in the 87th percentile. In math, whites scored in the 82nd percentile while minorities scored in the 77th percentile. In the public schools, however, there is a sharp contrast. White public school eighth grade students, nationally scored the 58th percentile in math and the 57th percentile in reading. Black eighth grade students, on the other hand, scored on the average at the 24th percentile in math and the 28th percentile in reading. Hispanics scored at the 29th percentile in math and the 28th percentile in reading. iii
These findings show that when parents, regardless of race, commit themselves to make the necessary sacrifices and tutor their children at home, almost all obstacles present in other school systems disappear.
Another obstacle that seems to be overcome in homeschooling is the need to spend a great deal of money in order to have a good education. In Strengths of Their Own, Dr. Ray found the average cost per homeschool student is $546 while the average cost per public school student is $5,325. Yet the homeschool children in this study averaged in 85th percentile while the public school students averaged in the 50th percentile on nationally standardized achievement tests.iv
Lucy
July 10th, 2009, 06:05 PM
As a university professor it is this sort of thing that causes me to worry about the children of unqualified home schooling parents. I have seen too many missives (and some outright rants) from home schooling parents who show severe problems in their own literacy and communication -- and THEY are teaching their own children how to read and write???? I have run across some home schooled students in freshman English who had no business being in my classroom -- with their complete lack of writing and reading competency I am amazed they were granted a diploma in the first place! I had to take them in hand and teach them the basics of sentence structure, paragraph organization and even how to edit their own work for spelling (since it seemed they had never had anyone edit their work for BOTH content AND writing style before) -- skills any student SHOULD have before entering a college/university classroom.
HO HUM! How magnanimous of you to help us poor, dumb home schoolers.
I don't suppose that you ever had to use any remediation for Public Schooled students? The fact is that our homeschooled kids are running blue circles around the product being produced by the government schools and I believe that your prejudice is SHOWING. Colleges everywhere can't get enough of our kids because they arrive with the knowledge, the work ethic, the manners and all the other attributes that make their schools look good.:explode:explode Educate yourself on the facts and we can have a conversation.
DrSoup
July 10th, 2009, 07:09 PM
As usual...the point was not so much a matter of being uninformed...I have seen many brilliant, home schooled kids and in fact, I support it.
It is my support for home schooling that causes me concern when people (presumably home schoolers) post in public forums (here, webpages, blogs, and even 'letters' to school boards) complaining about various state rules, while demonstrating significant problems in their own literacy. What sort of message do you think that sends to the states and people who make the rules??? It essentially says "They (home schoolers) aren't up to the task" and no matter how high the test scores of home schooled students may be, that opinion will STICK.
What I was actually saying (which you seem to have missed) is that if we are to complain about regulations and rules, the message might be better received and more persuasive if it is clearly written and without simple errors that stand out.
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