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Buzzardhut
August 6th, 2007, 09:29 AM
The Catholic Church plans to establish the kingdom of God on earth and win the world to the
Catholic Jesus (i.e., the Eucharistic Christ). This will be accomplished when the world (including the
separated brethren) comes under the rule and reign of Rome and this Eucharistic Jesus.

The Eucharistic Jesus is supposedly Christ's presence that a Catholic priest summons through the
power of transubstantiation, the focal point of the Mass. Many Christians believe the Christian tradition
of communion is the same as the Catholic tradition of the Eucharist. But this is not so. The Eucharist
(i.e., transubstantiation) is a Catholic term for communion when the bread and the wine are said to be
transformed into the very body and blood of Jesus Christ. The Catholic Catechism states:

In the most blessed sacrament of the Eucharist "the body and blood, together with the
soul and divinity, of our Lord Jesus Christ and, therefore, the whole Christ is truly, really,
and substantially contained."1

The host is then placed in what is called a monstrance and can then be worshiped as if worshiping
Jesus Himself. The implications are tied directly to salvation itself. With the Eucharist, salvation
becomes sacramental (participation in a ritual) as opposed to justification by faith in Christ alone,
described in Galatians 2:16. While this mystical experience is a form of idolatry (as well as the very
heart of Catholicism), there is a growing interest by evangelical Christians in this practice, particularly
by the emerging church.

The Catholic Church leadership, concerned with apathy for the Eucharist within the Catholic ranks, is
hoping to "rekindle the amazement"2 of the Eucharist through what is called their "New Evangelization
program."3 With a two-fold purpose--to keep present Catholics and to bring evangelicals into the
Catholic Church--church leadership has a plan to re-emphasize the Eucharist as the focus of the
Catholic faith. By saying "rekindle the amazement," they mean bring out the mystical, supernatural
element of the Eucharist.

All Catholics are expected to worship the host (Eucharistic Adoration of the transformed wafer), and
church leadership says it is anathema (to be accursed) to reject this teaching....

While it is true that during the Reformation and Counter Reformation, many who refused to believe in
transubstantiation were tortured and executed for their faith in the Gospel, time has a way of forgetting
the facts of history.

In April of 2003, the pope wrote an encyclical promoting the "New Evangelization" program for the
purpose of "rekindling amazement" for the Eucharist.4 Then in October of 2004, John Paul II initiated
"The Year of the Eucharist" as part of his evangelistic plan to bring the world to the Eucharistic Christ.
Following his death in April of 2005, Pope Benedict XVI picked up Pope John Paul's mission
immediately. He called the "faithful to intensify" devotion to the Eucharistic Jesus, and said the
Eucharist is the "heart of Christian life...."5

The New Evangelization program plans to revitalize the Catholic faith by reigniting strong interest in the
Eucharistic Jesus. It is not just the pope who is enthusiastic about this--cardinals, bishops, and priests
all over the world are joining in to help with the mission. Something very significant is happening.
Eucharistic adoration is becoming the foundation for the new evangelization of the Catholic Church....

In speaking of the pope's view on the Eucharist, Protestant-turned Catholic Scott Hahn states:

The coming of Jesus Christ - what the Greek New Testament calls his "parousia"--is not
simply some far-off event. It is his presence in the Eucharist. Fundamentalists reduce the
meaning of "parousia" to Christ's coming at the end of time; but for the first century Greek
speakers the word meant "presence." Catholic theology holds on to that original
meaning.6

The presence of Christ in the Eucharist is the Second Coming Catholic style. Unfortunately, many
evangelical Protestants are not even aware of this....

While Eucharistic adoration contradicts biblical Christianity, a growing number of popular evangelicals
(especially those leaning toward emerging spiritualities) seem to find no offense in such a doctrine. And
with the increased acceptance of mysticism and an attraction to imagery within evangelical circles, it
only makes sense that many evangelical Christians find nothing wrong with the Eucharist and
Eucharistic adoration. Such acceptance, however, is neutralizing former evangelical resistance to all
things Catholic....

In Doug Pagitt's 2003 book Church Re-imagined, he describes his initial attraction to rituals associated
with the Eucharist:

The first day of Lent this year brought the first Ash Wednesday gathering in our church's
history and in mine.... Until this point, Ash Wednesday had not been part of my Christian
faith experience. Not only had I never applied ashes to anyone's forehead, but I had also
never had them applied to mine. After this experience I wondered how I could have
celebrated 19 Easters as a Christian without this tremendous experience.7

Scot McKnight, another emerging church influencer, is professor of religious studies at North Park
University and on the Coordinating Group for Emergent Village.... McKnight is the author of The Real
Mary and The Jesus Creed. In referring to an Anglican service, McKnight speaks of the Eucharistic
focus. He states:

[T]he point of an Anglican gathering on a Sunday morning is not to hear a sermon but to
worship the Lord through the celebration of the Eucharist... First some scripture readings
and then the sermon and then some announcements and then the Eucharist liturgy--with
everyone coming forward to kneel and participate - publicly--in the body and blood.8

McKnight says that "the Eucharist profoundly enables the grace of God to be received with all its glories
and blessings."9 No doubt, McKnight will have an impact on those in the emerging church movement,
and his views on the Eucharist will rub off. He is a popular speaker at many events including Willow
Creek's Small Group Conference and the National Pastors Convention. Both of these events reach the
postmodern generation. (See Faith Undone for other examples of evangelical leaders showing tolerance
toward the Catholic Eucharist, one of which is Rick Warren.)

The late Robert Webber was very influential in closing the gap between Eucharistic adoration and the
evangelical church. A document he authored called "A Call to an Ancient Evangelical Future" states:
"We call for a renewed consideration of how God ministers to us in ... Eucharist."10 Two well-known
evangelical publishers, Baker Books and InterVarsity Press (both of which now publish emerging church
authors) sponsored the document as did Christianity Today. The AEF, which the document is called, is
endorsed by various emerging church leaders such as Brian McLaren who calls it "a preaching
resource" that "emphasize[s] the importance ... of Advent or Lent."11
Participants of the AEF include numerous Christian seminaries like Bethel Seminary in Minnesota,
Dallas Theological Seminary, and pastors from many different denominations including Nazarene,
Wesleyan, Mennonite, Reformed, and Baptist. ...

To those who traditionally haven't had much ritual in their lives (i.e., Protestants), the ambience of the
Mass would have great appeal because of its religious novelty--thus the interest in the Eucharist by
those who promote contemplative spirituality. And for many Catholics, the Mass (where the Eucharist is
presented), in, and of itself, is not a mystical experience. However if the contemplative dimension is
added, one actually can enter the mystical realm. On the surface, this phenomenon seems complex,
but once we begin to understand mysticism, it all makes sense. Within the contemplative prayer realm,
the meditator is actually getting in touch with a spiritual power or force. Combining the tradition of the
Eucharist, which appeals to many raised in the Catholic Church, with the relatively recent explosion of
contemplative practice, the Catholic Church sees this as a way to recover its robust state of previous
decades....

Right now, some may be asking, is the physical presence of Jesus held inside the elements of the
Eucharist? Or as some evangelicals and emergents have suggested, is there a special presence and
power in the Eucharist? The answer to both is a resounding no! Jesus Christ indwells the heart of every
person who is born again and who belongs to Him by faith through grace. He promises never to leave or
forsake us, meaning that His presence is in our lives at all times. We are not required to partake in a
ritual to experience His presence, nor is He confined in benign, lifeless wafers and wine (or juice). As
Jesus said:

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I speak unto you,
they are spirit [spiritual as opposed to physical], and they are life. (John 6:63, emphasis
added)

Jesus said this in response to his disciples' confusion over His statement "my flesh is meat indeed" (vs.
55). Paul adds further clarity in writing to the Romans that all we need to do is call upon the true Jesus,
and He is there:

But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the
word of faith, which we preach; That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus,
and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be
saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth
confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him
shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the
same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the
name of the Lord shall be saved. (Romans 10:8-13)

At this point, we see the great chasm that separates Catholicism from the light of the Gospel--a light
the reformers saw, for which many of them gave their lives. They recognized that participation in the
sacraments is not what saves people.

[T]he Catholic's New Evangelization is no small issue. Darkness has crept over the Christian church the
same way an avalanche sweeps down a mountain. Every day new unsuspecting victims are being swept
away and buried. And the role the emerging church plays in bringing this about is something that should
alarm every discerning Christian.

(From Faith Undone, excerpts from chapter 8 (http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=szu9ddcab.0.e5n498bab.r49t9yaab.6379&ts=S0266&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lighthousetrails.com%2Ffaithund one.htm))

To read more about the emerging church, read Faith Undone - to be released August 1st, 2007.

Notes:
1. Catechism of the Catholic Church, para. 1374, page 383.6
2. H. J. Schroeder, The Canons and Decrees of The Council of Trent (Rockford, IL: Tan Books and
Publishers, 1978), page 79, Canon 1.
3. Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, "The New Evangelization"
(http://www.ewtn.com/new_evangelization/Ratzinger.htm).
4. Zenit: The World Seen From Rome, "Why the Pope Would Write an Encyclical on the Eucharist: To
Rekindle Amazement," cited April 17, 2003, http://www.zenit.org.
5. "Pope Benedict calls on faithful to intensify devotion to Eucharistic Jesus,"
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=3686.
6. Interview with Scott Hahn, "Eucharist in the Pontificate of Benedict XVI" (Pontifications, June 12,
2005, http:// catholica.pontifications.net/?p=940).
7. Doug Pagitt, Church Re-Imagined, op. cit., p. 103.
8. Scot McKnight, "An Anglican Service" (Jesus Creed blog, http://www.jesuscreed.org/?p=2258).
9. Scot McKnight, Turning to Jesus, (Louisville, KY: Westminister John Knox Press, 2002 edition), p. 7.
10. Robert Webber, "A Call to an Ancient Evangelical Future" (Online at:
http://www.aefcall.org/read.html.
11. Brian McLaren, "The AEF Document as a Preaching Resource" (From the AEF Call website:
http://www.aefcall.org/documents/TheAEFDocumentasaPreachingResource_000.doc).

Kliska
August 6th, 2007, 02:22 PM
In speaking of the pope's view on the Eucharist, Protestant-turned Catholic Scott Hahn states:

The coming of Jesus Christ - what the Greek New Testament calls his "parousia"--is not simply some far-off event. It is his presence in the Eucharist. Fundamentalists reduce the meaning of "parousia" to Christ's coming at the end of time; but for the first century Greek speakers the word meant "presence." Catholic theology holds on to that original meaning.6

Thanks for the post!

Matthew 24:23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25Behold, I have told you before.
26Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

JoelH
August 6th, 2007, 03:31 PM
Wait until the Emerging Church supporters actually join in the Catholic church. They will then discover Benedict XVI will be demanding them to move into the "outdated theological stands" and condemning their "emerging ways" as heresy. I predict they will want out after only 6 months. :heh

YBIC,

Joel

Kliska
August 6th, 2007, 06:15 PM
The Eucharistic Jesus is supposedly Christ's presence that a Catholic priest summons through the power of transubstantiation, the focal point of the Mass. Many Christians believe the Christian tradition of communion is the same as the Catholic tradition of the Eucharist. But this is not so. The Eucharist (i.e., transubstantiation) is a Catholic term for communion when the bread and the wine are said to be
transformed into the very body and blood of Jesus Christ. The Catholic Catechism states:

In the most blessed sacrament of the Eucharist "the body and blood, together with the soul and divinity, of our Lord Jesus Christ and, therefore, the whole Christ is truly, really, and substantially contained."1

I do believe many Christians don't really see what is implied by the concept of the eucharist that the RC pushes. Here's some interesting quotes to help people grasp some of the implications of these teachings (emphasis will be mine):

"The dignity of the priest is also estimated from the power that he has over the real and the mystic body of Jesus Christ. With regard to the power of priests over the real body of Jesus Christ, it is of faith that when they pronounce the words of consecration the Incarnate Word has obliged Himself to obey and to come into their hands under the Sacramental Species....But our wonder should be far greater when we find that in obedience to the words of his priests-----HOC EST CORPUS MEUM-----God Himself descends on the altar, that He comes wherever they call Him, and as often as they call Him, and places Himself in their hands, even though they should be His enemies. And after having come, He remains, entirely at their disposal; they move Him as they please, from one place to another; they may, if they wish, shut Him up in the tabernacle, or expose Him on the altar, or carry Him outside the church; they may, if they choose, eat His flesh and give Him for the food of others. " -- "The Dignity and Duties of the Priest" by St. Alphonsus Liguori

And,

“When the priest pronounces the tremendous words of consecration, he reaches up into the heavens, brings Christ down from His throne, and places Him upon our altar to be offered up again as the victim for the sins of man…. the priest brings Christ down from heaven, and renders Him present on our altar as the eternal victim for the sins of man - not once but a thousand times! The priest speaks and lo Christ, the eternal and omnipotent God, bows his head in humble obedience to the priest’s commands.“ (John O’Brien, Catholic Priest -The Faith of Millions, (as quoted by John MacArthur))

Yeah, they aren't the pope, and/or the cathechism, but wow, it shows where this can lead.

Buzzardhut
August 6th, 2007, 08:09 PM
Wait until the Emerging Church supporters actually join in the Catholic church. They will then discover Benedict XVI will be demanding them to move into the "outdated theological stands" and condemning their "emerging ways" as heresy. I predict they will want out after only 6 months. :heh

YBIC,

Joel
A lot of Emergent doctrine is derived from mystical catholic monks.
I'm sure the pope will give them some leeway. :idunno

JoelH
August 6th, 2007, 08:47 PM
A lot of Emergent doctrine is derived from mystical catholic monks.
I'm sure the pope will give them some leeway. :idunno

The reality is muddlier than we Protestants know. These Catholic mystics are considered heterodox within the Catholic church. They belong to the post-Vatican II liberal wing and preaching pretty wacky things even from their own traditionalist perspectives. Benedict XVI is busy cleansing these out of the Catholic church.

Buzzardhut
August 6th, 2007, 10:31 PM
The reality is muddlier than we Protestants know. These Catholic mystics are considered heterodox within the Catholic church. They belong to the post-Vatican II liberal wing and preaching pretty wacky things even from their own traditionalist perspectives. Benedict XVI is busy cleansing these out of the Catholic church.
He is going to have his plate full in the near future