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rapture-me
August 18th, 2009, 08:10 PM
Ray on the streets[YOU TUBE VIDEO]4Owc5xgqoV0[/YOU TUBE VIDEO]

Expected Imminently
August 19th, 2009, 07:49 AM
I found that appalling!

That young man was asked a series of confusing, leading questions. Words were put into his mouth and he was obviously bewildered. It was plain he had a child-like faith as he stated he had been 'brought up' to understand about repentance. Jesus said ' suffer the little children - - - - for of such are The Kingdom of God'. His simple child like faith in Jesus, which is all that is required to be saved, was very apparent.

That's right; he didn't mention Jesus at that confrontation where he was adeptly manipulated to perform for camera. He obviously still had a lot to learn - but then so does Ray Comfort. The Jews were told to repent about their understanding of Messiah. Gentiles were told to "Believe - on the Lord Jesus Christ" no where does it say 'first you must repent - then believe'. Ray Comfort is preaching another Gospel here by suggesting repentance means that we have to clean up our act in order to be saved.

To believe is to repent (change one’s mind) it is a moment in time reaction when hearing the truth.

Joyb0218
August 19th, 2009, 09:09 AM
I found that appalling!

That young man was asked a series of confusing, leading questions. Words were put into his mouth and he was obviously bewildered. It was plain he had a child-like faith as he stated he had been 'brought up' to understand about repentance. Jesus said ' suffer the little children - - - - for of such are The Kingdom of God'. His simple child like faith in Jesus, which is all that is required to be saved, was very apparent.

That's right; he didn't mention Jesus at that confrontation where he was adeptly manipulated to perform for camera. He obviously still had a lot to learn - but then so does Ray Comfort. The Jews were told to repent about their understanding of Messiah. Gentiles were told to "Believe - on the Lord Jesus Christ" no where does it say 'first you must repent - then believe'. Ray Comfort is preaching another Gospel here by suggesting repentance means that we have to clean up our act in order to be saved.

To believe is to repent (change one’s mind) it is a moment in time reaction when hearing the truth.


Appalling, may be a little bit strong. I do agree with what you say on the scriptural aspect of just believing. Many many verses and passages that are given, only have the command to just believe.

But, I do agree with Ray Comfort in that the way Ray bases his evangelism based on how Jesus preached. Jesus used the law to get some/most people in the place where they MUST realize they need a Savior. They must realize that they are a sinner.

Now, this isn't needed for everybody to come to the Truth. We all come to the cross in our own ways. Some come because they hear that Jesus died for them. What love! Some come to the cross because they hear end times prophecy and know deep down that they don't want to go through that. Some hear about hell, and want to know how they can not go there.

Little children who are so afraid they won't make it into heaven, hear the Gospel and rejoice hearing the Truth. Knowing that they will go there if they BELIEVE.

Some/most people don't think they are sinning. LOTS of people don't believe they are doing anything wrong. I would dare say there are many people that don't know exactly what sin is!

There are many different preaching and evangelism styles. Ray's is based off of Jesus' way of bringing people to a point of realizing that they have offended a Holy and Living God. Before they can believe they have to be brought to a place that they have sinned.

Again, that is not for everyone, but for most. For example, Jesus at the well with the Samaritan woman. He knew she was living with a man who was not her husband. Before she could believe He was the Messiah, she was brought face to face with her own sin. That's just one example.

John the Baptist: Repent, repent, repent!

We ALL need to understand and realize that we are wretched, miserable sinners!! Take my husband for example, takes medication not prescribed to him. He thinks there is nothing wrong with it. The person who had the medication gave it to him, so it's okay, right? WRONG. He is morally and legally wrong. But he doesn't SEE it.

As with many, many people who dying and going to hell. They don't see it. They can't! They are spiritually blind. After all, there are many ways to Heaven, right?

Not everyone is going to agree with Ray Comfort. Not everybody is going to agree with John MacArthur or even my own paster who I love very much.

Our goal is to bring people to a place where they realize that they NEED a Savior. Praying a sinner's prayer and going on living a life of sin is not what it's about (like people I know), it's about living for God with every breath.

We must not give up spreading the Gospel message. And I firmly believe that Ray Comfort is not preaching another Gospel.

I just ordered his evangelism course. And I'm excited to get it. I'm always praying and seeking the Lord's face on how and what I can do to be a laborer for the Lord of the Harvest!!

SoundingtheAlarm
August 19th, 2009, 09:16 AM
• Repentance includes a “godly sorrow” (2 Corinthians 7:10) that leads the sinner to acknowledge and turn from sin and towards (or back to) God.

Luke 13:5

Jesus speaking

5 I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.”


Peter addressing the multitudes in Acts chapter 2

36 “Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”
37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?”
38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”

Expected Imminently
August 19th, 2009, 01:27 PM
Appalling, may be a little bit strong. I do agree with what you say on the scriptural aspect of just believing. Many many verses and passages that are given, only have the command to just believe.

Hello Joy :)
I fear it was 'appaling' to my senses. As far as I know The Word of God, this is another Gospel.

But, I do agree with Ray Comfort in that the way Ray bases his evangelism based on how Jesus preached. Jesus used the law to get some/most people in the place where they MUST realize they need a Savior. They must realize that they are a sinner.

if Ray Comfort were preaching to practising Jews, it would be a different matter. (I shall explain later). I see no value in preaching The Gospel to the converted - they require teaching in sanctification.

Now, this isn't needed for everybody to come to the Truth. We all come to the cross in our own ways. Some come because they hear that Jesus died for them. What love! Some come to the cross because they hear end times prophecy and know deep down that they don't want to go through that. Some hear about hell, and want to know how they can not go there.

Little children who are so afraid they won't make it into heaven, hear the Gospel and rejoice hearing the Truth. Knowing that they will go there if they BELIEVE.

Some/most people don't think they are sinning. LOTS of people don't believe they are doing anything wrong. I would dare say there are many people that don't know exactly what sin is!

There are many different preaching and evangelism styles. Ray's is based off of Jesus' way of bringing people to a point of realizing that they have offended a Holy and Living God. Before they can believe they have to be brought to a place that they have sinned.

Again, that is not for everyone, but for most. For example, Jesus at the well with the Samaritan woman. He knew she was living with a man who was not her husband. Before she could believe He was the Messiah, she was brought face to face with her own sin. That's just one example.

John the Baptist: Repent, repent, repent!

John was calling to Israel, to Repent.

We ALL need to understand and realize that we are wretched, miserable sinners!! Take my husband for example, takes medication not prescribed to him. He thinks there is nothing wrong with it. The person who had the medication gave it to him, so it's okay, right? WRONG. He is morally and legally wrong. But he doesn't SEE it.

If your husband is saved, he needs to be taught sanctification. If he isn't saved, and not a practising Jew, He needs to 'Believe on The Lord Jesus Christ'

As with many, many people who dying and going to hell. They don't see it. They can't! They are spiritually blind. After all, there are many ways to Heaven, right?

Not everyone is going to agree with Ray Comfort. Not everybody is going to agree with John MacArthur or even my own paster who I love very much.

Our goal is to bring people to a place where they realize that they NEED a Savior. Praying a sinner's prayer and going on living a life of sin is not what it's about (like people I know), it's about living for God with every breath.

We must not give up spreading the Gospel message. And I firmly believe that Ray Comfort is not preaching another Gospel.

I just ordered his evangelism course. And I'm excited to get it. I'm always praying and seeking the Lord's face on how and what I can do to be a laborer for the Lord of the Harvest!!




• Repentance includes a “godly sorrow” (2 Corinthians 7:10) that leads the sinner to acknowledge and turn from sin and towards (or back to) God.

Hello StA :)

Turning back to God is quite different from the initial act of Salvation. 2Corinthians 7 is addressed to the Corinthian Church. The context here involves the walk while already IN Christ where ongoing repentance to sin is necessary. Sanctification of the believer, not Salvation of the unbeliever.


Luke 13:5

Jesus speaking

5 I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.”

The Gospels always refer to Israel plus proselytes & Samaritans. People who did understood about the law and the prophets. They had to repent, from their wrong understanding, recognising that Jesus was the prophesied Messiah. Paul’s ministry was to the Gentiles, who knew nothing at all about The Law and the Prophets. They had nothing to change their minds about (repent), they were only ever instructed to believe in Christ Jesus for Salvation


Peter addressing the multitudes in Acts chapter 2

36 “Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”
37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?”
38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”


Key word is Israel – Peter was addressing ‘the house of Israel’ who had to change their minds about Messiah. In doing so they could then believe Jesus was indeed the Messiah the prophets had told them about.

There, I have tried to make an important point. I shall have to leave it there and just add that this method of preaching comes from the same spirit as that of the circumcision party. Believers have been set free from the law.

God bless you both for caring for the lost. :candle

Christina
August 19th, 2009, 01:57 PM
Regardless of what we may feel about the "tactic" that Ray uses, this video shows the confusion that plagues so many people in this day and age. The whole "believe and repent" or "repent and believe" issue is such a "hair trigger" that we shouldn't be making a huge big deal out of them, some say you must repent and then believe, others say you must believe and then repentence comes after.....the 2 are so close in hand that to argue about which one comes first totally derails away from the whole issue of people needing Jesus as their Savior. Beliving in Jesus as the only begotten Son of God who died on the cross for our sins, rose from the grave 3 days later and now sits at the right hand of God the Father, and repenting from our sins before the throne of God go hand in hand. This goes back to the whole topic of Salvation again and lip service. Going around and neglecting to tell people about repentence is as bad as telling people that salvation is a lisence to sin. The Gospel is about sin, repentence, Christ's death on the cross for the sins of all humanity, Christ's ressurection.

We see from this video where "belief" leads....this guy said he believed in Jesus Christ but then on the other hand also believes that we came from apes. He made it very clear to correct Ray, he specifically said "no, we aren't apes but we came from apes"......how can one truly believe in Jesus Christ yet believe we developed from apes? It's because the FULL Gospel is not being taught...in order for someone to truly be saved, they need to know the WHOLE Gospel and what it is they're believing IN.

Expected Imminently
August 19th, 2009, 02:37 PM
Hello Christina :hug

Dwelling on repentance first has been encouraging folk to get their lives sorted before coming to Jesus. It is faith plus works, and that is not the true Gospel of Jesus Christ; therefore it is adding to the plan for Salvation set by The Father.

Even if it is nearly right, it is still wrong; and therfore a false gospel and another Jesus. :candle

I haven't the energy to tussle at presnt; so I stand by what I said and leave you with Jesus.

God bless you. :)

Joyb0218
August 19th, 2009, 02:39 PM
Regardless of what we may feel about the "tactic" that Ray uses, this video shows the confusion that plagues so many people in this day and age. The whole "believe and repent" or "repent and believe" issue is such a "hair trigger" that we shouldn't be making a huge big deal out of them, some say you must repent and then believe, others say you must believe and then repentence comes after.....the 2 are so close in hand that to argue about which one comes first totally derails away from the whole issue of people needing Jesus as their Savior. ...

Amen, Christina.

Repentence is not an Israel issue, not a Jew issue or a Gentile issue. Yes, we are free from the law, that is besides the point. The point of the law was to bring us to the knowledge of our need of a Savior! We have ALL come short of the glory of God, we ALL need to repent of our SIN. Grace is the gift of God. But how can we accept what God has done for us, unless we recognize that we have violated God's Holy law?

One lie, one bad thought, one curse word and we are guilty of the whole law. I'll say it again, lots of people don't even realize that anything not of faith is sin.

We are to fulfill the great commission. We are commanded.

Phillippians 1:15 - 18:
Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. What then? Notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

Is there really a wrong or right way to bring people to the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ? Paul obviously didn't think so.

:candle

Christina
August 19th, 2009, 02:49 PM
Hello Christina :hug

Dwelling on repentance first has been encouraging folk to get their lives sorted before coming to Jesus. It is faith plus works, and that is not the true Gospel of Jesus Christ; therefore it is adding to the plan for Salvation set by The Father.

Even if it is nearly right, it is still wrong; and therfore a false gospel and another Jesus. :candle

I haven't the energy to tussle at presnt; so I stand by what I said and leave you with Jesus.

God bless you. :)

That's my point, it shouldn't be an issue of dwelling on repentence first, it should be an issue of believing and repenting going hand in hand, whether you want to say believe first and repent second or you want to say repent first and believe second is splitting hairs. You say that dwelling on repentence encourages people to get their lives in order first before coming to Christ, but neglecting to teach repentence is allowing alot of people to think salvation is a lisence to sin.....this is why I don't think it should be a matter of which word you put first but make sure that both are being taught so that when someone comes to Christ they know that 1. Salvation is not a lisence to sin and that 2. that the Holy Spirit will indwell their bodies and because of their believing in Christ the Spirit will begin to convict them of their sins and their need of repentence

The Gospel is simple but it should never be diluted.

I too don't want to tussle with you (love that word by the way...lol) and can't go another 100 pages of which word should be put first but I will leave you with this 2 Corinthians 7:10 ~ For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

So yes....repentence is in the equation as well.:hug

SoundingtheAlarm
August 19th, 2009, 02:53 PM
to make my stance or point is in it's simplest method I can

If I come to point of KNOWING I need to eat to live...I can believe a can of food will save me...but If I don't ACT upon that belief...I will perish (starve)

when the Law opens our eyes to the need of salvation....if we don't appropriate the free gift through repentance (RESPOND) we are still lost in our sin

If you are drowing in a deep lake and a man is flying out with a helicopter..extending his hands (nail scarred) down to save you but you don't REACH OUT and COME OUT OF THE WATER you will drown

you can believe the man can save you ...but you have to respond

A biblical belief is one that appropriates said confession by acting upon it..."faith without works is dead" can't have one without the other

But it's the grace of God that propels me to act upon my confession