Max Lucado and others

[Berean Girl]

Many of my brethren are failing to do the following:


Matthew 7:15
[ You Will Know Them by Their Fruits ] “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.

Matthew 24:11
Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many.

Matthew 24:24
For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

Luke 6:26
Woe to you when all men speak well of you, For so did their fathers to the false prophets.

Luke 11:35
Therefore take heed that the light which is in you is not darkness.

1 Corinthians 7:23
You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men.

1 Corinthians 10:12
Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall.

2 Corinthians 11:4
For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted—you may well put up with it!

2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified.

Galatians 1:7
which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ.

Galatians 1:8
But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.

Galatians 1:9
As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.


Colossians 2:8
Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.

1 Timothy 4:1
[ The Great Apostasy ] Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,

1 Timothy 4:16
Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.

2 Peter 2:1
[ Destructive Doctrines ] But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.

2 Peter 2:4
[ Doom of False Teachers ] For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment;

2 Peter 2:12-14

Depravity of False Teachers

12 But these, like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption, 13 and will receive the wages of unrighteousness, as those who count it pleasure to carouse in the daytime. They are spots and blemishes, carousing in their own deceptions while they feast with you, 14 having eyes full of adultery and that cannot cease from sin, enticing unstable souls. They have a heart trained in covetous practices, and are accursed children.

2 Peter 2:18
[ Deceptions of False Teachers ] For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error.

James 1:16
Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.

1 John 2:18
[ Deceptions of the Last Hour ] Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.

1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

1 John 4:1
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

:scripture

[Sing4Him]

The Stone-Campbell Restoration Movement
The "Christian Church", The "Church of Christ", and the "Disciples of Christ"

These three Christian sects form what is commonly referred to in theological history as the Campbellite or Restoration Movement1. As denominations2, they trace their roots to a number of nineteenth century, dissident Presbyterian and Baptist clergy -- e.g. Barton Stone, Thomas Campbell and his son, Alexander.

At their core, all three are representative of modern-day theistic humanism. Nearly all embrace evangelical Arminianism and are non-dispensational in their interpretation of Scripture. Consequently, none are completely free of first century Judaism, and thus they struggle with various forms of legalism. For most part, the Apostle Paul's message of sovereign grace is "anathema." A small minority are universalists who reject the doctrine of the Trinity as well as the Deity of Christ, thus qualifying for 'cult' status. The Campbellite 'progressives' are leading ecumenicists3 -- e.g. Max Lucado.

Their non-dispensational view of Scripture causes them to emphasis the early ministry of Peter, and the Kingdom Gospel, in the Book of Acts4. Their banner Bible verse is Acts 2:38. They are unable to grasp why the Apostle Peter and the Apostle Paul placed different emphasis on the act of water baptism, and are baffled why the Holy Spirit would allow Paul to write in 1 Corinthians 1:17:

For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect.

Consequently, these groups have traditionally and erroneously made water baptism an integral part of salvation. Many teach a baptismal regeneration--i.e., that the new birth occurs during water baptism and does not occur without it. Similar to Pentecostals and Seventh-Day Adventists, they have worked to build acceptance within mainline evangelicalism by being furtive with their views,--in specific the role of water baptism. If pressed or exposed, they easily become belligerent. (For extensive documentation regarding the water baptism issue, see the Wikipedia reference link below.)

The Campbellite concept of Christianity is largely the form of religion found in the Synoptic Gospels and the transitional period of the early chapters of the Acts before the displacement of Peter and his message of the Kingdom. However, unlike the early Apostles, they reject the sovereignty of God in favor of the so-called free-will of man -- theistic humanism. It is their failure to understand the Pauline revelation that accounts for the spiritual poverty [not numbers] of their fellowships and associations. Except for a few, they are unfamiliar with the Gospel of Grace given by the ascended Lord Jesus Christ via the Apostle Paul.

Also read the Wikipedia entry: Independent Christian Churches/Churches of Christ

continued-->>http://www.withchrist.org/campbellites.htm

[AllforHim]

:ohno I was reading the other thread about Beth Moore and read that Max was going the same way!!! I'm stunned :shocked I've read his books for years and It has helped me walk with God in the past :nod One of his earlier books really helped me to come to the Lord ( I wouldn't read a bible but got persuaded to read Max) I havent read them in a few years now, but I have fond memories :sob If this is true I'm heartbroken :sob Praying for him :pray

[Berean Girl]

Will get you nowhere.

We will not stop expositing FALSE DOCTRINES, FALSE TEACHINGS, FALSE PROPHECIES, FALSE METHODS AND METHODOLOGIES, FALSE PHILOSOPHIES and any other error, heresy, aberration preached by ANYONE that flies in the face of God's Word!

GOD + THE BIBLE = THE GOSPEL

GOD +/- THE BIBLE = ANOTHER GOSPEL

Just because some on here "can't handle the truth", and dont seem to be able to "rightly divide the Word of Truth" nor to "test the spirits to see if they be of God", and seem to not want to "search the scriptures to see if these things were so".... does not mean that those of us on here who care about Jesus and His Bride are not telling the truth.

Ignorance IS NOT bliss.

Knowedge is the beginning of Wisdom, and that is what those of us on this board have prayed for and God has seen fit to provide. We also have prayed for discernment in these last days as the times are dark and the day is almost over and night will come when no man can work.

Maybe more people should start praying for their eyes to be opened and for them to be able to sever themselves from the blind love for men and their philosophies and instead to seek after God and His Truth above all things.

As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteouness sake, for they shall attain the Kingdom of Heaven.

Matthew 5:12
Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

[tenn4ever]

Sing4Him quote:

At their core, all three are representative of modern-day theistic humanism. Nearly all embrace evangelical Arminianism and are non-dispensational in their interpretation of Scripture. Consequently, none are completely free of first century Judaism, and thus they struggle with various forms of legalism. For most part, the Apostle Paul's message of sovereign grace is "anathema." A small minority are universalists who reject the doctrine of the Trinity as well as the Deity of Christ, thus qualifying for 'cult' status. The Campbellite 'progressives' are leading ecumenicists3


I'm glad you said nearly all.. We went to an Independent Christian Church for twenty years and hardly a thing within your quote applied to them. The church is not ecumenical at all(one branch of it is - the liberal branch). Our church was entirely autonomous. They believe baptism is an act of obedience not part of salvation. CoC/non-instrumental may hold this belief - which I believe they do. Having said that , I don't think that affects their relationship with Jesus. What we found while attending that church is that the people lived on Monday and all through the week what you saw on Sunday. They had personal and close walks with the Lord. Their kindness and compassion for others was astounding. Over 60% of the congregation was involved in Sunday morning Bible study(Sunday School) - every Sunday. All of Paul's letters were used in the sermons and in Bible study. The sermons were studies on scripture not topical discussions:rolleyes Prayer and Bible study were greatly encouraged along with Christian growth and maturity (unlike the Grace churches which are content for everyone to remain baby Christians their entire earthly lives and have hardly any preaching on Christian growth and leading a Christian life). I do believe Paul cautioned against that :).

I did not grow up in the Independent Christian Church. I grew up in a small country Methodist church. I've attended SBC churches; Missionary Baptist (now there is legalism for you); Grace churches(never again); small Independent Baptist/Bible churches - which I found to be petty and argumentative - constant bickering within the churches; non-denominational churches which tend to grow very large and have a lot of entertainment based worship services; a couple of charismatic churches which I attended a couple times with a friend or a relative but I would never attend these as my home church(very suspect theology). Having said all that I think there are people in all these churches who are saved/born again. Every denomination has some bad or weak theology in it.

We are very firm in our belief and our faith. We both have a personal relationship with Jesus our Lord and savior. I do not believe in denominations per se. After leaving our prior state we've had to search for a new church home. It's been difficult but we have found one which we've settled on. What is important to us is to find a church where the church leadership is committed to Christ's Lordship and the congregation also committed to His Lordship. If we love the Lord we cannot help but serve Him and obey Him. If you notice - that statement is an equation. It can also be read If we do not serve Him and obey Him then we do not love Him.

[Jewels]

I went to Max Lucado's church site and it says under "Beliefs" that they do believe in the trinity.

I am having a very hard time here. I love Max and Beth Moore. Is there any question about their salvation? I can see that Beth and possibly Max are being deceived and not realizing Contemplative Prayer/Spirituality is dangerous. WE can pray, pray, pray.

I just want to know if anyone is thinking they are "sheep in wolves clothing".
I just think they are deceived.

Now I am debating whether or not I want to do my Beth Moore Bible study with my group this year. I think she is incredible and I really do not have any doubt that she loves the Lord with all her heart, mind, body, and soul. I just want to cry.

I wish we could have a list of those who are "sheep in wolves clothing (those that truly are not saved)" and those that could just be being deceived.

These are scary times.

[Jewels]

Ok, so now John MacArthur is on the list? I think we need to be careful not to slander anyone.

I just bought his book called "The Truth War, Fighting for Certainty in and Age of Deception". It is all about warning us about the emergent church, etc.

Maybe he too is deceived and doesn't realize that John Piper supports a two-state solution to the Israel/Palestinian problem or that John Piper is a Post-tribulationist.

I myself was fooled when I did a bible study throught my church that was a contemplative/spiritual formation study. I felt strange the whole time I did it. It was over my head and just didn't feel right. I would look at my friend the whole time like, "huh?" After reading about the dangers of it I pointed it out to my friends. I don't know if my church still teaches it or not. Anyway, my point is how easy it is to be fooled until someone points it out.

Again, are you accusing Stanley, MacArthur, Piper, etc. of not being truly saved? Or are you saying they are being fooled?

[firstlove]

I went to Max Lucado's church site and it says under "Beliefs" that they do believe in the trinity.

I am having a very hard time here. I love Max and Beth Moore. Is there any question about their salvation? I can see that Beth and possibly Max are being deceived and not realizing Contemplative Prayer/Spirituality is dangerous. WE can pray, pray, pray.

I just want to know if anyone is thinking they are "sheep in wolves clothing".
I just think they are deceived.

Now I am debating whether or not I want to do my Beth Moore Bible study with my group this year. I think she is incredible and I really do not have any doubt that she loves the Lord with all her heart, mind, body, and soul. I just want to cry.

I wish we could have a list of those who are "sheep in wolves clothing (those that truly are not saved)" and those that could just be being deceived.

These are scary times.


You know what-there are many here who can't stand that someone might see scripture a bit differently than they do-but instead of stating why their beliefs are incorrect-they curse, this is unscriptural. God's Word does not return void-the Holy Spirit will teach you if you're open to that-and He can use Max Lucado, or Beth Moore to do it-hey he even used a donkey in the OT.

[Jewels]

Thanks firstlove. It seems that almost daily there is one more person added to the list. I had no problem getting rid of my Rick Warren book, and tossing my Spiritual Formation study away, but when it comes to Beth Moore, Stanley, Swindoll, Lucado, I will not do so yet. I really feel in my heart that they will join us in the rapture. No doubt about it.

I know it says somewhere in the bible that teachers will be held accountable for the things they teach. They better be careful.

[Buzzardhut]

Ok, so now John MacArthur is on the list? I think we need to be careful not to slander anyone.

I just bought his book called "The Truth War, Fighting for Certainty in and Age of Deception". It is all about warning us about the emergent church, etc.

Maybe he too is deceived and doesn't realize that John Piper supports a two-state solution to the Israel/Palestinian problem or that John Piper is a Post-tribulationist.

I myself was fooled when I did a bible study throught my church that was a contemplative/spiritual formation study. I felt strange the whole time I did it. It was over my head and just didn't feel right. I would look at my friend the whole time like, "huh?" After reading about the dangers of it I pointed it out to my friends. I don't know if my church still teaches it or not. Anyway, my point is how easy it is to be fooled until someone points it out.

Again, are you accusing Stanley, MacArthur, Piper, etc. of not being truly saved? Or are you saying they are being fooled?

You folks are making mountains out of mole hills.
Just be careful about today's teachings and make sure they line up with scripture.