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Buzzardhut
September 26th, 2008, 01:08 PM
Castle and Justinsolo:

I remember your arguments best, so will ask my question to you two.

I am not sure about Matt 24, being either rapture or second coming. I lean toward rapture as I agree that people will no longer be peacefully harvesting and grinding right before the return of Jesus. Remember however, that we need to separate punishment from judgement.

The dead in Noah's flood will be judged at the White Throne judgement. The dead from the Tribulation will be judged at the White Throne judgement. Matt 25: 31- 46 (sheep and goats separated) is a reference to the White Throne Judgement, Rev 20: 11-15. Thus your argument that the people being 'taken' nullifies the Matt 25: 31- 46 is not correct.

I'm sorry that I have not directly quoted your posts and I hope this is somewhat coherent. I am having a very bad day with my back which seriously effects my ability to think
sheep and goats judgments (judgment of the nations) are living humans judged worthy to enter the millennium
the white throne is all the dead from beginning to end after the millennium

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q193/crinie123/EndTimes2.jpg

JustinSolo
September 26th, 2008, 01:09 PM
Buzz, it sounds to me that you do not view Greek as a more exact language than English. :scratch

I do think I can get the meaning from English though through context. Don't get me wrong. I am definitely NOT saying the English is corrupt. But I came to my view of Matthew 24 way before I even looked up the Greek word. When this thread started, I wondered what the original vocabulary meant, so I looked it up. I simply used the Greek text to reinforce what I already believed from the english. It was not my initial piece of evidence that swayed me. :hat

acceptedintheBeloved
September 26th, 2008, 01:13 PM
sheep and goats judgments (judgment of the nations) are living humans judged worthy to enter the millennium
the white throne is all the dead from beginning to end after the millennium

Agreed! :thumb

JustinSolo
September 26th, 2008, 01:22 PM
Let me try to understand the other side better...

Are you guys saying that the sheep and goats is what is being referred to when it says one taken and one left?

If yes, is this taking place immediately as Jesus is coming down, or is it later once he is on the ground?

Buzzardhut
September 26th, 2008, 01:43 PM
Matthew 24:3 "the end of the world" means "completion of the age." :hat

which age?


Let me try to understand the other side better...

Are you guys saying that the sheep and goats is what is being referred to when it says one taken and one left?

If yes, is this taking place immediately as Jesus is coming down, or is it later once he is on the ground?
it's simultaneous
The angels gather the harvest during the second coming see post #61
and completed after Jesus sets up his throne


Buzz, it sounds to me that you do not view Greek as a more exact language than English. :scratch

I do think I can get the meaning from English though through context. Don't get me wrong. I am definitely NOT saying the English is corrupt. But I came to my view of Matthew 24 way before I even looked up the Greek word. When this thread started, I wondered what the original vocabulary meant, so I looked it up. I simply used the Greek text to reinforce what I already believed from the english. It was not my initial piece of evidence that swayed me. :hat
greek is more detailed but does not give opposite connotations for that would be very confusing, the amplified bible provides the details of the greek

I think the position you are trying to push is post trib?

JustinSolo
September 26th, 2008, 02:00 PM
Post Trib? No way! I am not post trib in the least. I'm sorry if I came across that way. I am just seeing that section as referring back to the beginning of the tribulation time. I see Jesus explaining how it will start.

Surrender
September 26th, 2008, 02:02 PM
Matthew 24:3 "the end of the world" means "completion of the age." :hatI thought the Mill. Kingdom was the Kingdom Age? So, wouldn't this mean the disciples were asking about the end of the age they were in, which was not currently ruled by Christ as King?

Besides, doesn't "His coming" and the "end of the age" have to do with the same time? Why would the disciples want to know the "end of the age" if it refers to the end of the Mill. Kingdom... they'll be WITH Him the entire Mill. Kingdom. Am I misunderstanding something here for those of you with this viewpoint?

acceptedintheBeloved
September 26th, 2008, 02:53 PM
I thought the Mill. Kingdom was the Kingdom Age? So, wouldn't this mean the disciples were asking about the end of the age they were in, which was not currently ruled by Christ as King?

Besides, doesn't "His coming" and the "end of the age" have to do with the same time? Why would the disciples want to know the "end of the age" if it refers to the end of the Mill. Kingdom... they'll be WITH Him the entire Mill. Kingdom. Am I misunderstanding something here for those of you with this viewpoint?

I think I am agreeing with you (if I understand correctly. :lol2 ) I was just giving the literal translation. Maybe that was confusing? :idunno

I believe it refers to the "age" the "inquirers" were in. (His [Second] Coming at the end of that age, not at the end of the Millennium. Does that make sense? And, there's the "Church age" gap in there, before the final seven years of that age... if I'm saying that clearly. I hope it's more clear, anyway. :) )

LAURIEH
September 26th, 2008, 02:54 PM
The White Throne judgment is at the end of the millennium. So I am not sure that can be the sheep and goats. I thought the sheep and goats was to see who enters the millennium.



thats the way I see it also

BlessedAssurance
September 26th, 2008, 04:45 PM
they are taken away to the supper of the lamb and birds and/or the sheep and goat judgment right before the millennium

the sheep enter into the millennium as the first mortal citizens

Okay, so the idea is that the people not involved in Armageddon will be snatched away to the judgement into the millennium?
:scratch That sounded ok, but why wouldn't both people be snatched, because everyone has to be judged, don't they?

I don't know. I think I'm going to leave this until I feel better. :tsk