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Kate
April 14th, 2009, 02:03 PM
Just want to add, if you know someone who is unsure about pre-trib, show them the movies on here (RR). It sure helped me understand!

I question anyone hostile over the thought of pre-trib, that sure wasn't me, I just didn't understand the concept of it. :thinking

jadeeyes
April 14th, 2009, 02:04 PM
I was always a little doubtful about the pre-trib rapture until today if you can believe it! I was hopeful and encouraged by it, but never fully convinced.

What changed? The movies on here and my thoughts while watching them.

I do believe that things can't be fulfilled now until were gone. We just have to much power due to the holy spirit to hold or delay things from happening.

This all came together for me and I'm so thankful. It makes perfect sense finally.

By the way, another thought came to me, most of the Christians of the world live in western countries, is there any wonder why these countries are blessed or have been? Why so many want to come to our countries from all over the world? Today, however, our countries are sliding from belief, we see this every day. Looks what's happening as a result. Satan knows we are a threat and has infiltrated our lands. Of course this was going to happen, we were affecting the planet, moving throughout it (holy spirit guiding). He had to push us back. So long as we are here, we will fight Satan and we were promised by Christ himself we will be protected until his return for us. I believe we are close because everything seems so set up for a full attack on the saved Christian.

Praying hard for the seeded souls to accept Jesus now!!!!!! :pray:pray

:yeah :hug

JefferyDollars
April 14th, 2009, 02:14 PM
I think it also has to do with a lack of understanding of how incomprehensible the love of Jesus Christ is. I think that Christians that believe post-trib dont understand God's agape love he is so loving, he desires mercy not the sacrifice of us having to go through the tribulation. His blood already has purified us, post-tribs that think we need to go through the rapture to be purified truly dont understand that God sees us cover in the blood of Jesus so therefore in his eyes we are perfect so why the need to purify further that which is perfect through the blood already???

Another thing that doesnt make sense to me is if the people that are alive right now are not pure enough to just be raptured before the trib. Why is it that people that die are pure enough to go to heaven??? I think that if one were to believe in the post-trib that they would also to be fair have to believe in purgatory so that people that die before the trib dont get a free pass and pop right into heaven without first being tested or whatever.... kinda scary if ask me to think this way...

Thomas
April 14th, 2009, 02:51 PM
I have use the jack Kelley's article with my class on prophecy a couple weeks ago that Biblenuggetlady talk about.
Its an eye opener.

Tom

JY11
April 14th, 2009, 02:56 PM
Great post, Seated.

I have talked with professed Christians who seem to fear a Pre-Trib rapture. When someone fears it, I have to wonder where their faith really is. Perhaps more faith in the world?

Glory in print
April 14th, 2009, 03:07 PM
After a meeting this morning my pastor asked me a question which I instantly recognized as one which is valid and which many pre-tribbers have asked themselves before. It was, "Why does it seem 90% of all people who hold any kind of end times' position so resent dispensationalism and/or the pre-trib position?

While I didn't have an answer right at that time for him, I did later on, after thinking about it. The pre-trib position is irreversibly tied to dispensationalism, even if a pre-tribber doesn't necessarily agree with all the tenants of it. One basic tenant of dispensationalism which all pre-tribbers do agree on is the separation/distinction between Israel and the Church. Pre-tribbers see that God is not finished with Israel and that she has a Glorious future ahead, beyond the time of the Church on this earth.

Contrast that for a moment with what the world thinks. Most of the world is either indifferent or hostile to Israel. Indeed, God Himself has Prophesied that all the nations will eventually come against Israel and Jerusalem. We today can see things progressing rapidly toward a fulfillment of that Prophecy. As it happens, antisemitism grows and effects even those in the Church, particularly those who attend assemblies/denominations where political activism is heavy and what the world thinks carries much weight. Some denominations have gone so far as to openly criticize Israel for it's perceived right to the land it holds or for it's treatment of Palestinians. There is little regard for what God's Word says about Israel's future or for other watershed issues either. As a result, the wisdom God offers which is Truth is supplanted by the wisdom of the world, which is really none at all.

Let's face it. As the world continues to form itself against Israel, all pre-millennial positions, including pre-trib, will become less and less palatable to the world and even to professing Christians who are closer to the world than others. It would seem to logically follow that hatred for Israel will also transfer to our theology, adding to the hatred the world already feels for us because of Jesus Christ.

There are other reasons, of course, why other professing Christians may disagree with or "hate" the pre-trib position, but hatred for Israel certainly underlies some of these emotions. The world doesn't want a Glorious future for Israel. Some don't want any kind of future for Israel. Because pre-tribbers believe in the same God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, we also love what God does and that includes Israel. If we say we don't or we abandon that love, then we clearly do not understand His Ways.

We have a unique privilege as pre-tribbers. God has lead us all to this faith and the peace we derive from it. No other group of Christians can go out and present both the Eternal Hope of Jesus Christ and the Blessed Hope as defined by our position. We of all people have the most positive, encouraging message there is to give. So let's not lose heart and continue giving it.

Soon. :)Man, just the other day I was debating a Christian on another board who despised the pre - trib rapture....Some Christians get down right hostile toward the pre - trib rapture, and I don't understand why....I for one feel that Satan himself hates the teaching of the pre - trib rapture, because once the rapture really does happen, there will most likely be millions of professing Christians left behind (most catholics for one) they are the largest denomination of Christians in this nation, and most of them are not born again, so with that large of a number of Christians left behind, they will say no it wasn't the rapture, because there are millions of us on earth, plus they will argue that the pre - trib rapture is unbiblical, and as we know a strong delusion will be sent upon the earth after the rapture, so in my opinion the attacks on the pre trib rapture is Satans tactic of planning for a great deception after the rapture takes place.

Kate
April 14th, 2009, 03:10 PM
Man, just the other day I was debating a Christian on another board who despised the pre - trib rapture....Some Christians get down right hostile toward the pre - trib rapture, and I don't understand why....I for one feel that Satan himself hates the teaching of the pre - trib rapture, because once the rapture really does happen, there will most likely be millions of professing Christians left behind (most catholics for one) they are the largest denomination of Christians in this nation, and most of them are not born again, so with that large of a number of Christians left behind, they will say no it wasn't the rapture, because there are millions of us on earth, plus they will argue that the pre - trib rapture is unbiblical, and as we know a strong delusion will be sent upon the earth after the rapture, so in my opinion the attacks on the pre trib rapture is Satans tactic of planning for a great deception after the rapture takes place.

Wow! That makes perfect sense. Then when a messiah like figure shows up and these left behind Christians back him, you can see how it all can fit together. :twitch

CrochetGirl
April 14th, 2009, 03:32 PM
I'd have to agree with this statement:

"I think that a large number of non-pre-tribbers haven't yet accepted that our debts are paid in full. For some reason there is a group that feels like we cannot be exempt from the tribulation because they haven't come to terms with exactly what Jesus has done for us.

To add my own two cents worth, I think non-pre-tribbers don't understand grace (not that I'm claiming to fully understand it myself). However, I do think a pre-trib vs. other trib. view is closely tied to one's understanding/view of God and the finished work of Christ!

I've seen a lot of vehemence from post-tribbers because they think that pre-tribbers want to "avoid suffering." It's almost as if they believe you are somehow "holier" if you suffer. That, of course, is nonsense! Christ's death has already killed the unholy, dead-to-God, unrighteous sinner-people that we once were. When Christ was resurrected, we were resurrected with Him as new creations in Christ Jesus--as holy, righteous, acceptable-to-God SAINTS.

Many believers don't understand that truth, and so they think that we must "work to retain our salvation," "suffer to purify ourselves," and "endure tribulation to deserve God's gifts." All to which I say: AS IF!

ReadytoGoNow
April 14th, 2009, 03:40 PM
I am so thankful to have been raised in a church that taught the rapture and for having a mother who believes in it. I never had to wonder or doubt. It was just part of growing up.
THANK YOUR LORD!:yeah

Seated
April 14th, 2009, 03:52 PM
Jack Kelley wrote an article on this not long ago:

http://gracethrufaith.com/my-thoughts/the-church-against-the-rapture/

Thanks for posting the link. The last paragraph caught my attention:


Of the 5 crowns believers can win as rewards for the way they live, one will be given to those who long for His appearing. (2 Tim. 4:8) It has always fascinated me that it’s called the Crown of Righteousness. Most folks would think that one would go to those who led exemplary lives. Not so. Our righteousness is imputed to us by faith. Longing for His return is a sign of faith in His promise that He will. (John 14:1-3) I wonder how many of those they’ll be handing out.

Continuing on with Jack's thought here, those who recognize that our Righteousness is not ours but Jesus' are also able to see that Church has already been spiritually united with Jesus in preparation for the Wedding. All that remains is for us to become exactly like Him in all respects, including our eternal bodies. In the parable of the Wedding feast (Matt 22), what followed next after the destruction of the city was the Wedding. It's imminent.

Soon. :)