Support for pretrib rapture

[Jacinth]

Samson, are you hinting that you don't believe in a pre-trib Rapture?You were compelled to ask him this exact question in another thread. :hehee

I hope you're a Pre-Tribber, Samson - the Scriptures do not lie! :)


I'm not sure why a church who does believe in the rapture (just doesn't say when), wouldn't call this to the attention of the enitre church during service. Read scripture! Show people! Look, it says "Not appointed to suffer wrath!"

[Little Bug]

:hug :hug :hug Thank you sooooo much, Rhon, for posting this! I'm another one who has always thought that Matthew 24:37-44 dealt with the Rapture. Once again I'm gonna say it (whether Hal is right or wrong here doesn't matter to me) .... God bless Hal Lindsey! :yeah

[Rhon]

I do not agree that Matthew 24 39-41 is talking about the rapture because the word taken in both those instances is lambano in Greek. John 19 also mentions took, lambano when talking about Jesus, when Pilate scourged him. So I believe the verses are talking about taken in judgment and not raptured because the greek word for rapture or to be snatched away is harpazo not lambano. It's just my opinion though. :hat

How can that mean taken in Judgement? The Judgement occurs before the throne of God. These verses clearly state that people are interacting with each other while here on earth. Working in a field, sleeping in bed. When the rapture does occur, that is what will be happening. We'll be going about our normal day to day activities when Jesus calls us home. Hal has been studying prophecy for decades. He reads the KJV Bible, Greek New testement (he studied Greek) and the NAS version. It's hard to believe that he wouldn't have some significant understanding on the verses in Matthew and Luke he mentions in the video. I am interestd in other views and welcome comment on this. :)

[Rhon]

I tend to agree with this. In the parallel account in Luke, they asked (in response to they shall be taken), was "where"? He told them, where the body is, the vulture is also. That doesn't sound like a Rapture, but a solemn (and deadly) judgment.

Luke 17:34-37
34 "I tell you, on that night there will be two in one bed; one will be taken and the other will be left.
35 "There will be two women grinding at the same place; one will be taken and the other will be left.
36 "Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other will be left."
37 And answering they said to Him, "Where, Lord?" And He said to them, "Where the body is, there also the vultures will be gathered."


Curious to what Jesus meant by this however: 37 And answering they said to Him, "Where, Lord?" And He said to them, "Where the body is, there also the vultures will be gathered." Since Jesus used parables so much.

[Rhon]

I believe the whole chapter describes three different time periods. The destruction of the temple in 70AD, Daniels' 70th week (the tribulation) and the rapture (verses 36 to 44).

Couldn't this be a possibilty to consider. I'm sooooooo confused :unsure now after reading through this thread. I don't want to :stirpot so if this ends ups causing an issue, I'll apologize ahead of time. :wave

[RaptureReady2day]

Hi Molly!

Don't feel bad, but Praise God, you have a good pastor who dares to delve into prophecy! In a lot of prophecy there is a near and far fullfillment meaning that it applies in part to the time the book was written but will have a far complete fulfillment in the future. Such as vs 5 where many will come in my name and deceive many, and vs 9 (they shall deliver you up to be afflicted and shall kill you) Did that happen to the apostles? yeah it did.

Verse 40 says that 2 will be in the field one left and the other taken, )as it was in the days of noah), the ones taken in Noah's day were taken in judgement, and only Noah and his family was left.

We as the church do not have to endure to the end the tribulation, because Daniel 9 states that the tribulation is just for Daniel (a Jew) and his people. How wonderful that you are in a prophecy teaching church...you are one of the few blessed ones!


Matthew 24
3And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Look at the 2nd question. What coming where the apostles looking for? It was the 2nd coming, when the King would be set up, and the 12 would rule over the 12 tribes of Israel. The Kingdom was the focus of most of the Old Testament and all the way up until the apostle Paul came on the scene and explained the Rapture and the church age of grace.

4And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

6And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

10And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

11And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25Behold, I have told you before.

26Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

28For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

32Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

33So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

35Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

36But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

37But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

45Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

46Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

47Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

48But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

49And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

50The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

51And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

[Castle]

I do not agree that Matthew 24 39-41 is talking about the rapture because the word taken in both those instances is lambano in Greek. John 19 also mentions took, lambano when talking about Jesus, when Pilate scourged him. So I believe the verses are talking about taken in judgment and not raptured because the greek word for rapture or to be snatched away is harpazo not lambano. It's just my opinion though. :hat

No, thats incorrect - the word is from Paralambano - the same verb used in John 14:1-3 which is clearly a rapture reference. It means "To take (to oneself), to take with, or along with"...As contrasted with language typically seen with unrepentant sinners, which is "cast out".

[cocopea9052]

Don't feel bad Rhon. I always thought it was the Rapture too! So, usually in cases like these where there is a clear division in understanding, I ask myself the following:

Does it affect my walk/faith one way or the other?
Does it affect my witness to others?
If the person is saved, does it matter?

In this case, the unsaved will not be Raptured so this could well be a man left in the field or a women. And if it is speaking of after the trib, there is still one saved and one not saved. The earth will be a complete mess at that time, most of it destroyed, dark, famine, dead bodies everywhere, etc. It just does not seem to me that God would then take the one away to be judged but leave the one saved in those conditions. :idunno. I mean what are they suppose to do while waiting?

[Rhon]

Don't feel bad Rhon. I always thought it was the Rapture too! So, usually in cases like these where there is a clear division in understanding, I ask myself the following:

Does it affect my walk/faith one way or the other?
Does it affect my witness to others?
If the person is saved, does it matter?

In this case, the unsaved will not be Raptured so this could well be a man left in the field or a women. And if it is speaking of after the trib, there is still one saved and one not saved. The earth will be a complete mess at that time, most of it destroyed, dark, famine, dead bodies everywhere, etc. It just does not seem to me that God would then take the one away to be judged but leave the one saved in those conditions. :idunno. I mean what are they suppose to do while waiting?

:hug You're right and I love you to pieces for that reminder. Thank you :hug

I guess the reason I find this so interesting is because hubby and I both are studying the bible. One of the reasons I really really tend to believe that Matthew 24:40-41 speaks of the rapture is because in Matthew 24:42-44 Jesus says 42 "Therefore, be on the alert for you do not know which day your Lord is coming. 43. But be sure of this, that if the head of the household had known at what time of the night the theif was coming he would have been on the alert and would not have allowed his house to be broken into 44. For this reason you be ready too; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not think He will"

Now, we do not know when the Rapture will take place. However, we are told in Revelation when the 2nd coming occurs. The Second coming isn't like a theif in the night

Again Cocopea, I do thank you for your sweet words!

[Rapturetime]

I have said many times that if Matthew 24 is not for us and is not talking about the rapture, then we need to stop labeling the rapture with the "no one knows the day or hour" bit. You can't have it both ways. Then it would just have "thief in the night" left to apply. I personally think not knowing day or hour does apply because I see the rapture in Matthew 24.

I agree. We shouldn't be talking out of both sides of our mouth. Anyway, it is ridiculous to think that people will not know when the 2nd coming will happen. There will be 144 thousand witnesses who will probably get to know their Bible more than any of us will ever hope to. Also, don't you think that people saved during the trib will have a heightened interest in learning Bible prophecy? The bottom line is that the armies of the world will meet in the Valley of Decision not only to fight the Antichrist, but in their lust for power will bind themselves together to fight a common cause, the Lord Jesus Christ Himself! Now, why would they do that if they didn't know when He was coming? Were they just going to hang out for awhile and just hope for the best?