Support for pretrib rapture

[tfcrew]

they are eating and drinking UNTIL the day Noah entered the ark - Noah entering the ark is representative of the rapture - once the rapture occurs, all the merriment ends.
According to scripture...
Rev 11
10And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

[Rosie]

JustinSolo - I have had exactly the same frustration with the "no one knows" as applying to the rapture when everyother verse is applied to the second coming.

I think Missler taught that, but don't quote me on that.

(By the way, a pastor taught me long ago that the second person of the Godhead certainly knows now, but in His voluntary "laying aside" of His divinity, it was not something the Father was revealing to Him to tell the apostles at the time.)

As we know many scriptures do have near and "far" fulfillment. We also know that although something may apply specficially to Israel, there are ways in which it applies to all of God's people throughout dispensations (hopefully the Trib saints will be able to claim something other than just verses from Revelation).

As this thread evidences, many, many learned and scholarly Bible teachers differ on some of the particulars. I, like you, am not dogmatic on them.

I will throw out one observation. During the time Jesus was teaching the apostles, they were Jews. They were also "incipient" Christians. As the leadership of Israel progressively rejected the Messiah, the "age," if you will, started to "turn," finally resulting in the birth of the Church as "the Body of Christ" at Pentecost. And, only a "remnant", if you will, of all the Jews at the time, actually became Christians.

It is almost as if the ages kind of "smeared" into each other during the time between Christ's birth and Pentecost (witness all the confusion the apostles and disciples had. Witness the "but I say to you" statements. Witness the numerous offerings of the Kingdom to Israel's leadership.)

I have to wonder if we are seeing the same thing today. It seems as the Church is growing into the "measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ" (per Paul in Ephesians) by both numbers of believers AND maturing of believers (through sanctification), a large portion of the Church is "looking up." Either because their persecution is forcing it, or because they see the signs, or both.

The world, to me, anyway, is really fading. It really, really is - I have detached from it in ways I never even knew I was attached! And I know many on here have voiced similar sentiments. It is almost as if the stuff we got so much comfort in even five years ago just does not satisfy anymore. And I am not talking about "sinful" stuff. (But I have never been what I would consider particularly "holy" or "devout.")

And the world is getting lots, lots, lots worse.

We see, with our own eyes, exactly how mass delusion can grip a people. We see people believing two completely contradictory statements, at the same time, in the face of massive amount of evidence to the contrary! And, of course, we see geopolitics lining up in ways that were unimaginable just 50 years ago, but which were prophecied, what, over 3,000 years ago??

And, as most of Israel "fell away" from God's plan for them in Christ, so many in the visible "Church" are falling away in ways that were also unimaginable just 50 years ago.

So it is almost like we are seeing the "smearing" of the end of the Church Age into Daniel's 70th - week time. I am not saying the Trib will emerge full-blown immediately after the rapture - I don't really know.

But I do see a parallel between the beginning of the Church Age (which started definitively at Pentecost) and the end of the prior age and the situation today (which will definitively end at the Rapture).

Just an observation.

[Christina]

Awesome post Rosie!:thumb

[Rosie]

Thanks, but it is just an observation - could be completely wrong!!
I started thinking about it because everyone always says the Trib is when "God turns His attention to Israel."

It seemed to me that God has been "attending" to Israel for years. Not because they are now the chosen vessel to reveal God to man at this point in history (I do think the Church is that now), but because He has never taken His eye off of Israel, and is starting the "end of age" work in that nation now.

That is where Hagee, et al. go a bit south. They see that God does still regard Israel, and they come to the mistaken conclusion that that means we should not witness to Jews!! Good grief. We should witness to Jews - God knows who among those in Israel will be part of Israel's "national salvation" described in the OT and the NT. BUT WE DON'T!!

Anyway, that has been an area that I have been contemplating as I see His hand in the gathering in Israel, in her survival against all odds, etc. That is what got me to thinking about the dispensational "preview" we are getting of the Trib., and how the apostles got similar "previews" before Pentecost.

[twisty58]

I just finished reading Matt 24 (again) and am a little worried because when Jesus tells the disciples about the end, there is no mention of rapture. In fact, He talks about us going through these things. Can someone please talk me off of the ledge?:thinking

[JesusIsLord]

Dont worry! This message was to Israel, not the Church. The Church had not been created yet, so there is no mention of the Rapture in Matthew 24.....it is describing the Tribulation period. The Lord revealed the Rapture's details to Paul to give to the Churches.

God bless!

[Christina]

I just finished reading Matt 24 (again) and am a little worried because when Jesus tells the disciples about the end, there is no mention of rapture. In fact, He talks about us going through these things. Can someone please talk me off of the ledge?:thinking

Keep in mind that the majority of Matthew 24 is written for the Tribulation Saints, not the Bride...by Matthew 24 the church is already gone.

[bek1]

I just finished reading Matt 24 (again) and am a little worried because when Jesus tells the disciples about the end, there is no mention of rapture. In fact, He talks about us going through these things. Can someone please talk me off of the ledge?:thinking

It would help to look at the specifics of the disciples questions. They asked three things. 1. When will this happen? (this being the temple being destroyed since Jesus had just finished talking about that.)
2. What will be the sign of your coming? (this would be in reference to Jesus' physical return to the earth for His millineal reign, which is why a lot of what Jesus says in this passage references the 7 year tribulation.) and 3. What are the signs of the end of the age?

The church was still a mystery at this point in time during this conversation between the disciples and Jesus. They didn't ask about the rapture nor did Jesus chose to let them in on specifics about it quite yet. That would come later when the mystery of the coming church age became revealed. This conversation should be looked at from a Jewish standpoint. This was great insight into what the Jewish nation will be going through (with the exception of those who become part of the one new man in Christ...the Church)

[Janae]

Yes, it depends if Matthew 24 is the first second coming or the second second coming (parousia).

Given that pre trib must be absolutely correct, then Matthew 24 must speak of the second second coming.

[Christina]

First Second Coming?:scratch