Support for pretrib rapture

[Brinkley]

Matthew chp 24 is about the second coming, even the part about "no man knows the day nor hour" that rapture watchers use as a disclaimer for not knowing the time of the rapture.

Perhaps the "no man knows the day nor hour" has to do with the days being shortned before Jesus returns or else no flesh would be saved.

[acceptedintheBeloved]

Matthew chp 24 is about the second coming, even the part about "no man knows the day nor hour" that rapture watchers use as a disclaimer for not knowing the time of the rapture.


Agreed! :thumb

I agree with all who say that this passage is not about the Church, but about Christ's Second Coming (which pertains to those in the trib). :hat

[Janae]

First Second Coming?:scratch

Yes, in Matthew 24 the disciples ask when His sign of the [parousia] will be.

AV Mt 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what [shall be] the sign of thy coming (parousia), and of the end of the world?

...which means coming as in being near or physical bodily presence,

G3952 parousia par-oo-see'-ah

from the present participle of G3918;

a being near, i.e. advent (often, return; specially, of Christ to punish
Jerusalem, or finally the wicked); (by implication) physically, aspect:--
coming, presence.

Obviously the other [parouisa] in 1 Thes. 4 must be the first second coming [parousia] and the sign of the [parousia] mentioned in Matthew 24 must be the second second coming [parousia].

AV 1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming [parousia] of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
AV 1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
AV 1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

In 2 Thes 2:8 it must also be the second second coming because it states that this coming immediately destroys the antichrist:

AV 2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

But the coming [parousia] mentioned a few verses before must be the first second coming [parousia] because it mentions the rapture, our gathering/assembly to Him as a complete collection (episunagoge)

The second second coming [parousia] is also mentioned again later in Matthew 24 in response to the disciples question (they were not interested in the first second coming [parousia] it seems:

AV Mt 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming [parousia] of the Son of man be.

AV Mt 24:37 But as the days of Noe [were], so shall also the coming [parousia] of the Son of man be.

AV Mt 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming [parousia] of the Son of man be.

Which speaks of the wrath, so that must be the second second coming, because the first second coming [parousia] would have already occured.

That keeps it all simple, 2 seperate "parousias "or comings, one for rapture/resurrection and one for the destroying of unbelievers and the antichrist...

[Christina]

That keeps it all simple, 2 seperate "parousias "or comings, one for rapture/resurrection and one for the destroying of unbelievers and the antichrist...

Okay, so you refer to the rapture as the 1st Second Coming and his Second Coming as the second Second Coming, got it.:hat

[Janae]

Okay, so you refer to the rapture as the 1st Second Coming and his Second Coming as the second Second Coming, got it.:hat

Well the rapture requires a coming, so that would be the first second coming, but I guess what you are calling the second coming would actually be the third coming...but then people look at me strange when I say that, so I just state that there are two second comings.

[WalkTheLine]

Time for linguistic gymnastics, :D

When Christ comes for the bride and effects the harpzo, the great catching away, He does not come to earth so this is not a "second coming". The first coming He was on earth for about 33 years and lived with men. The second coming He will put His foot on the Mount of Olives, He is coming to live with men. :thumb At the great catching away He does not stay nor does He set foot on earth so He does not come to earth a second time.

How's that for semantics? :heh

[Christina]

Well the rapture requires a coming, so that would be the first second coming, but I guess what you are calling the second coming would actually be the third coming...but then people look at me strange when I say that, so I just state that there are two second comings.

Well yes, the rapture requires a coming but but he only comes in the clouds, he doesn't actually "touch down"...that's why I refer to it as the rapture and not the 1st second coming and for the Second Coming, he actually comes down to earth so I call it the Second Coming. The 1st Coming for me was when he came to earth to be born of a virgin. For me there is the 1st Coming, the Rapture and then the Second Coming.

[Christina]

Time for linguistic gymnastics, :D

When Christ comes for the bride and effects the harpzo, the great catching away, He does not come to earth so this is not a "second coming". The first coming He was on earth for about 33 years and lived with men. The second coming He will put His foot on the Mount of Olives, He is coming to live with men. :thumb At the great catching away He does not stay nor does He set foot on earth so He does not come to earth a second time.

How's that for semantics? :heh

Perfect!

We were replying at the same time...lol

[Janae]

Time for linguistic gymnastics, :D

When Christ comes for the bride and effects the harpzo, the great catching away, He does not come to earth so this is not a "second coming". The first coming He was on earth for about 33 years and lived with men. The second coming He will put His foot on the Mount of Olives, He is coming to live with men. :thumb At the great catching away He does not stay nor does He set foot on earth so He does not come to earth a second time.

How's that for semantics? :heh

That is fine if we want to define what a "coming" is by our own definition.

Scripture says it is the same thing, same word.

The rapture is still a coming using a scriptural definition. Now we can call it the "air or cloud that stops short of touching the ground just for rapture/resurrection" coming and we can call the other the "air or cloud that does touch the ground" coming, but it is still two comings or parousia's.

The disciples asked about His coming [parousia] and Jesus described both comings [parousia's] to them...the one that is after the Great Tribulation, and the one that no one knows the day or hour, like the days of Noah, and the bridesmaids parable....before the Great Tribulation...Jesus must have just described the second second coming first and the first second comng second.

[im4Jesus]

First Second Coming?:scratch

Right, Jesus does not actually come to earth for the Rapture. We meet him in the clouds. So the Second Coming really is the second coming.