C_J_M
April 16th, 2008, 11:47 AM
Much of my reply here is already on another post so, I'm simply copying, and adding to that. To me, the Key Scripture regarding tongues would be this:
===
1 Corinthians 13:7-10 (King James Version)
"Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
===
NOTE THE PHRASE "whether there be tongues, they shall cease..." "Cease means "to end".
In a number of Pentecostal Churches I have attended, some people have shunned anyone who did NOT speak in so-called "tongues". I'm not impressed with this so-called "gift". This gift was used in the past to establish the Church, which is the Body of Christ and NOT the organized church. I've experienced in my own neighborhood cruelty at a Pentecostal church when I had explained how I was gossipped and slandered against at a previous job that I had. Of course, at times I was witnessing Christ! So, my question to anyone who is pro-tongues is this: "Where is the Love of Christ in such a church if everyone claims "tongues" but doesn't have Love?
ANOTHER KEY SCRIPTURE:
===
1 Corinthians 13:1-5 (King James Version)
1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
===
Notice the words "become as sounding brass". Well, I don't want to be one of those!
In some cases, I've noticed that a catholic church may be nearby to the Pentecostal church so, some so-called believers simply "church-hop" and think they're saved simply because they are bi-lingual. This is somewhat true in my neighborhood. This is not the gift of tongues but the advantages of culture. Either one or both parents of the person's family speaks more than one language so the child benefits from this cultural heritage.
Another point is that, many years ago, I had read an article on "Glossolalia" in Psychology Today, and the author, a psychologist, was being quite insightful; that people were simply putting together syllables that would come to their mind and were saying that it was a language, which it wasn't! Maybe do a Google search on "Glossolalia" and check for yourselves.
The Lord speaks plainly to people. He doesn't have a secret language, nor is there a "special anointing" as some Pentecostalists say. All of this is simply an invention of pride.
HERE IS MY RELATED REPLY TO ANOTHER POST - "Is there something Sinister Going on?"
===
One gift we should all pray for (and I've prayed for it and have it) is Discernment. A number of christians want something like "tongues" which to me is useless if you can't discern the times or the seasons. Jesus Himself talked about this when he rebuked the Pharisees:
---
Matthew 16:1-4 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
1 The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven.
2 He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red.
3 And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowering. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?
4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.
So, since we're on this Bulletin Board looking for the Signs of the Lord's return, this is the gift that should be sought after most of all. I do warn everyone, however, with this scripture:
James 1:17 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
Remember: the 'gift' is perfect, but WE ARE NOT! Having this gift, for someone who is sensitive, as I am, has a price. If you really can stand being a spiritual submarine and "dive" into the depths past the boats floating on the so-called "calm" surface, and you have discernment, then you will see the Sin; the corruption; viscious human nature hiding behind a friendly face. On and on.
There are limits to what we can handle. I call this "the limits of creaturliness". There are things spiritual, emotional and physical that we can't handle. It's an immature christian that says "I can handle anything". Now it's true that the scripture does say:
Philippians 4:13 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
Nevertheless, remember that Paul had a thorn in the flesh which the Lord didn't remove.
So, to answer the main thread: Is there something sinister going on? That's a definite "YES" because of the continuing presence of Satan and his demons. Until we're in our Resurrection bodies, we have to contend with them through the flesh and resist them by Jesus, the power of prayer and the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit. That's the only way I know of to handle anything "sinister" that's out there.
===
So, I say to everyone here to pray rather for the gift of Discernment and maybe this so-called "gift" of tongues will simply go away! And if it DOES go away, then that's proof that the Lord wasn't involved in this gift to begin with. Those who "keep" their gift of tongues, if they really have it, shouldn't think too highly of themselves, however, because I've noticed that this tongues phenomenon is especially susceptible to immature believers at the least, and the unsaved at the worst.
Again, the Love of Christ is the first thing I would look for in any bible-believing church, not "Tongues", not "Signs and Wonders" or any other thing that is sensational; otherwise what's the point of attending, etc.?:thinking
===
1 Corinthians 13:7-10 (King James Version)
"Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
===
NOTE THE PHRASE "whether there be tongues, they shall cease..." "Cease means "to end".
In a number of Pentecostal Churches I have attended, some people have shunned anyone who did NOT speak in so-called "tongues". I'm not impressed with this so-called "gift". This gift was used in the past to establish the Church, which is the Body of Christ and NOT the organized church. I've experienced in my own neighborhood cruelty at a Pentecostal church when I had explained how I was gossipped and slandered against at a previous job that I had. Of course, at times I was witnessing Christ! So, my question to anyone who is pro-tongues is this: "Where is the Love of Christ in such a church if everyone claims "tongues" but doesn't have Love?
ANOTHER KEY SCRIPTURE:
===
1 Corinthians 13:1-5 (King James Version)
1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
===
Notice the words "become as sounding brass". Well, I don't want to be one of those!
In some cases, I've noticed that a catholic church may be nearby to the Pentecostal church so, some so-called believers simply "church-hop" and think they're saved simply because they are bi-lingual. This is somewhat true in my neighborhood. This is not the gift of tongues but the advantages of culture. Either one or both parents of the person's family speaks more than one language so the child benefits from this cultural heritage.
Another point is that, many years ago, I had read an article on "Glossolalia" in Psychology Today, and the author, a psychologist, was being quite insightful; that people were simply putting together syllables that would come to their mind and were saying that it was a language, which it wasn't! Maybe do a Google search on "Glossolalia" and check for yourselves.
The Lord speaks plainly to people. He doesn't have a secret language, nor is there a "special anointing" as some Pentecostalists say. All of this is simply an invention of pride.
HERE IS MY RELATED REPLY TO ANOTHER POST - "Is there something Sinister Going on?"
===
One gift we should all pray for (and I've prayed for it and have it) is Discernment. A number of christians want something like "tongues" which to me is useless if you can't discern the times or the seasons. Jesus Himself talked about this when he rebuked the Pharisees:
---
Matthew 16:1-4 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
1 The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven.
2 He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red.
3 And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowering. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?
4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.
So, since we're on this Bulletin Board looking for the Signs of the Lord's return, this is the gift that should be sought after most of all. I do warn everyone, however, with this scripture:
James 1:17 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
Remember: the 'gift' is perfect, but WE ARE NOT! Having this gift, for someone who is sensitive, as I am, has a price. If you really can stand being a spiritual submarine and "dive" into the depths past the boats floating on the so-called "calm" surface, and you have discernment, then you will see the Sin; the corruption; viscious human nature hiding behind a friendly face. On and on.
There are limits to what we can handle. I call this "the limits of creaturliness". There are things spiritual, emotional and physical that we can't handle. It's an immature christian that says "I can handle anything". Now it's true that the scripture does say:
Philippians 4:13 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
Nevertheless, remember that Paul had a thorn in the flesh which the Lord didn't remove.
So, to answer the main thread: Is there something sinister going on? That's a definite "YES" because of the continuing presence of Satan and his demons. Until we're in our Resurrection bodies, we have to contend with them through the flesh and resist them by Jesus, the power of prayer and the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit. That's the only way I know of to handle anything "sinister" that's out there.
===
So, I say to everyone here to pray rather for the gift of Discernment and maybe this so-called "gift" of tongues will simply go away! And if it DOES go away, then that's proof that the Lord wasn't involved in this gift to begin with. Those who "keep" their gift of tongues, if they really have it, shouldn't think too highly of themselves, however, because I've noticed that this tongues phenomenon is especially susceptible to immature believers at the least, and the unsaved at the worst.
Again, the Love of Christ is the first thing I would look for in any bible-believing church, not "Tongues", not "Signs and Wonders" or any other thing that is sensational; otherwise what's the point of attending, etc.?:thinking