Exposing False Teachers Without Judging Salvation [Archive]

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Sing4Him

August 11th, 2007, 08:17 PM

Quote:
The whole purpose of this forum is to bring to light these practices and teachings so that people can be better at discerning error in the church

We EXPOSE people who are promoters of a "different spirituality." We do NOT judge their salvation. Not at all.

Now.. Beth Moore is ON Richard Foster's DVD "Be Stiill" along with Max Lucado.

This DVD is about Contemplative Prayer Practices. The DVD teaches viewers to do Breath Prayers and "Centering Prayers.

Max Lucado is on this also.

Beth Moore has also spoken about a "tent meeting with God" like Moses had. I posted an EXCELLENT article about this by Pastor DeWaay who is very careful as to what he writes on.

John MacArthur has also written a book about this false methods of prayer etc.

There are numerous books bY BELIEVERS in regards to the relationship of these practices and eastern mysticim.

The Lies of the Devil. False teaching.

Now.. when I and others post about Beth Moore partaking in these advocations, Max Lucado also, etc..

people on here.. do I need to name names, come unglued, freak out and can't handle their beloved "teachers" to possibly be in error.

They ARE in Error.. don't you see it? It is an extraBiblical apractice Beth is condoning.

at first she retracted being on th DVD..but then decided she would again condone it.

Does this make any believer happy? NO NO NO

Do we want Beth, Max, etc.. to be taking part in these things? NO..

Do we wish they would turn from this? yes.

do you on here get this?? Do you see it is NOT a personal attack on dear Beth or Max????

IT is on what they are participating, and in fact endorsing.

IT is wrong.

Many, Many teachers we have adored in the past are turning to this JUNK.. they are being deceived.

Should you go to your conferences? sure.. go ahead.. you will have a great experiential time of joy and "feel good" sentiments

Maybe the message of the cross will be told.. will lyou hear that we are sinners in need to Jesus' death for us?

I hope so.. maybe you will..

aside from that.. these people are advocating extra Biblical practices..
now.. if you think that is o.k and we sholudn't expose this and you want to continue in your blind little world and have your head in sand.. like the Church of Laodecia.. fine.. o.k. go ahead.. cry and complain that we "meanies" are speaking the truth.. and not in hate but in love.. that YOU would not be deceived by what next may come out of their mouths.

They entertain demons when it is not in God's word.

It's NO FUN writing on here again and again about the lies that are coming and have come into the once evangelical churches and conferences today.

It grieves our Spirit.. It Grieves the Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ who is our all in all, our one mediator who beckons us to come BOLDLY to His throne with our prayer requests.. not meaningly, vain repetitions.

Heb 4:16, Matt 6:7

How can I, as a believer, in GREAT humility; tell you anything more than I have written here. I try my best.

I am NOT the enemy. I hurt inside to post and paste these things.

Sing4Him

August 11th, 2007, 08:20 PM

RICHARD FOSTER QUOTES :

The wonderful thing about contemplative prayer is that it can be found everywhere, anywhere, anytime for anyone."—from the Be Still DVD

"We began experiencing that "sweet sinking into Deity" Madame Guyon speaks of. It, very honestly, had much the same "feel" and "smell" as the experiences I had been reading about in the Devotional Masters" (from Renovare Perspective.01/ 1998)

"What an inviting picture of movement and work in harmony with the divine Center of the universe"( Inward Simplicity: The Divine Center,)

"Can we live in virtually constant communion with the divine Center of the universe?"( Inward Simplicity: The Divine Center)

"Simplicity, then, is getting in touch with the divine center" (Simplicity)

"Thomas Merton has perhaps done more than any other twentieth-century figure to make the life of prayer widely known and understood ... his interest in contemplation led him to investigate prayer forms in Eastern religion ...[he is] a gifted teacher ..." (Spiritual Classics - p.17)

"Dom John Main understood well the value of both silence and solitude ...Main rediscovered meditation while living in the Far East." (Spiritual Classics - p.155)

Sing4Him

August 11th, 2007, 08:26 PM

Richard Foster:

"We must be willing to go down into the recreating silences, into the inner world of contemplation. In their writings, all of the masters of meditation strive to awaken us to the fact that the universe is much larger than we know, that there are vast unexplored inner regions that are just as real as the physical world we know so well. They tell us of exciting possibilities for new life and freedom. They call us to the adventure, to be pioneers in this frontier of the Spirit." (Celebration of Discipline, 1980, p. 13.)

From Richard Foster's Renovare Newsleter:

From Renovare's Perspective Newsletter:
"Spend some time this week listening to contemplative music designed to quiet you, settle you, deepen you. (Compact discs and tapes from the Taize Community, John Michael Talbot, and the Monks of Weston Priory are especially helpful.)"

Sing4Him

August 11th, 2007, 08:28 PM

Richard Foster Speaks Out About Those
Who Are Contemplative

Agnes Sanford
"I had the privilege of being in Agnes Sanford's home and hearing her speak on numerous occasions, and I was always instructed by her good sense ... more than once I saw Agnes Sanford praying with great intensity and power one moment and laughing at a homespun joke the next ... such experiences freed me to be at home with God. I believe it will do the same for you." (Spiritual classics)
Thomas Merton
"Thomas Merton tried to awaken God's people."
(Conversation with Ray Yungen)

"Thomas Merton has 'priceless wisdom' for the
spiritual life of the Christian."

"Thomas Merton has perhaps done more than any other twentieth-century figure to make the life of prayer widely known and understood ... his interest in contemplation led him to investigate prayer forms in Eastern religion ...[he is] a gifted teacher ..." (Spiritual Classics - p.17)

Tilden Edwards
(founder of Shalem Prayer Institute)
On Edward's book, Spiritual Friend, Foster says "an excellent book on spirituality."
In this book, Edwards says, "This mystical stream [contemplative prayer] is the Western bridge to Far Eastern spirituality"

The Cloud of Unknowing
(Caution! Not a Christian site)
"Why does this little prayer of one syllable pierce the heavens?" (Spiritual Classics -p.45)

John Main
(Caution! Not a Christian site)
"Dom John Main understood well the value of both silence and solitude ...Main rediscovered meditation while living in the Far East." (Spiritual Classics - p.155)

Meister Eckhart
"Today Eckhart is widely read and appreciated, not so much for his theological opinions as for his vision of God." (Spiritual Classics - p. 206)

"Apprehend God in all things for God is in all things. Every single creature is full of God and is a book about God." Meister Eckhart

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Foster and Out of Body Experiences?
Read Foster's Own Words

"In your imagination allow your spiritual body, shining with light, to rise out of your physical body. Look back so that you can see yourself lying in the grass and reassure your body that you will return momentarily ... Go deeper and deeper into outer space until there is nothing except the warm presence of the eternal Creator. Rest in His presence."
— Visualization and Imaging, Jon Trott

What is
Palms Up, Palms Down?
{as described in Foster's
Celebration of Discipline}
* Palms Up, Palms Down and the Labyrinth
(the Three Fold Path)

"Palms Up, Palms Down"

These three stages can be symbolized with a "palms down, palms up" approach to walking the labyrinth.

"Palms down" symbolizes release or letting go while "palms up" indicates receiving. Enter the labyrinth and walk to the center with palms down and center your thoughts on releasing conflictual issues and concerns in your life. When you reach the center turn your palms up to be receptive to insight. As you walk out of the labyrinth keep your palms up to receive strength and guidance to make your insight manifest. As you leave the labyrinth turn to face the center and bring you palms together for a prayerful end to your walk."
http://www.lessons4living.com/three_fold_path.htm

Sing4Him

August 11th, 2007, 08:30 PM

Richard Foster and the Be Still DVD
by Ray Yungen

Richard Foster, one of the speakers in the new Fox Home Entertainment Be Still DVD, is highly regarded and well respected in much of the evangelical community. His book, Celebration of Discipline, has had a massive influence on Christendom for many years. And yet, Foster has a long history of drawing from spiritual wells that reflect eastern mystical beliefs. But with names such as Beth Moore (see Beth Moore statement) and Max Lucado on the Be Still DVD label, most people will automatically trust the content of this program. This means that tens of thousands of people will be introduced to Richard Foster's spirituality with a sense of security that what they are watching is biblically sound, relevant for their lives and accepted by those whom they have long trusted and looked up to.

In order to understand the magnitude of this, we need to examine what Richard Foster does indeed teach and promote. In 1994, I had been alerted to Foster by a youth pastor friend who had read Celebration of Discipline and began to practice its contemplative methods. The youth pastor became alarmed when while repeating a phrase over and over, he began to drift into an altered state of consciousness and realized such a mystical practice was more of an eastern style method than one endorsed in Scripture. It was after this that I attended a local seminar where Richard Foster was speaking. At the end of the meeting, I approached him. Wanting to know more about Foster's beliefs, I asked, "What do you think about the current contemplative prayer movement?" Foster emphatically told me, "Thomas Merton tried to awaken God's people!" It was then I knew my concerns about Foster were right—for you see, I had been researching and studying Thomas Merton and knew Merton believed the Christian church was missing what he considered one essential element, something the Buddhists had but we didn't—contemplative prayer (i.e., mantra meditation). It was this mystical element Merton had hoped to "awaken" God's people to.

With further study, I became convinced that Foster was in sync with Merton. Merton, who at one time said he was impregnated with Sufism1 (Islamic mysticism) and said he wanted to become the best Buddhist he could be, likened the contemplative experience to an LSD trip.2 And yet, of Merton, Foster says: "Thomas Merton has perhaps done more than any other twentieth-century figure to make the life of prayer widely known and understood � His interest in contemplation led him to investigate prayer forms in Eastern religion. Zen masters from Asia regarded him as the preeminent authority on their kind of prayer in the United States."3

Throughout the years, Foster has shown great consistency in promoting this eastern style meditation of Merton's. Starting with Celebration of Discipline in 1978, Foster said that we "should all without shame enroll as apprentices in the school of contemplative prayer."4 And yet, as former New Age medium, Brian Flynn, points out in his book Running Against the Wind, Foster himself says this is a dangerous prayer method that can invoke demonic activity and requires special protection. From Foster's book, Prayer: Finding the Heart's True Home, Foster says: "I also want to give a word of precaution. In the silent contemplation of God we are entering deeply into the spiritual realm, and there is such a thing as a supernatural guidance that is not divine guidance. While the Bible does not give us a lot of information on the nature of the spiritual world [not true], we do know � there are various orders of spiritual beings, and some of them are definitely not in cooperation with God and his way! � But for now I want to encourage you to learn and practice prayers of protection.� 'All dark and evil spirits must now leave.'"5

Such a notion is hard for former New Agers to understand. Of Foster's warning, Brian Flynn says: "Why would God ask us to become involved in a type of prayer that could bring exposure and harm from demonic influences? Foster warns that a novice Christian should not engage in it.� Why would Foster or any believer want to practice such a form of prayer? Could it be they are infatuated with the seductive feeling that accompanies it—and like other contemplatives, feel the need to get closer to God? But this presents a dilemma, for it is the finished work of Christ on the Cross that allows us access to the throne of God, and that access is immediately available to us the moment we are born-again. It is not just for an elite group of people who are "mature" enough to handle it; no, it is for all who have been born of the Spirit and justified by faith."6

In Celebration of Discipline, Foster tells us "we must be willing to go down into the recreating silences, into the inner world of contemplation," later saying that the "masters of meditation beckon us."7 Who are these masters he speaks of? Throughout his writings and over and over through the years, Foster talks about and promotes these "masters of meditation." All one has to do is find a copy of Prayer: Finding the Heart's True Home where Foster talks favorably about Sue Monk Kidd (who teaches New Age goddess spirituality), Basil Pennington (who said the Holy Spirit is the soul of the human family) and Thomas Merton. In two of Foster's books, Spiritual Classics and Devotional Classics he has gathered the writings of 52 authors in each book of whom he describes as great devotional writers. Both books are filled with the writings of pantheists (god in all), universalists (all are saved) and mystics. Foster lists more of these "masters of meditation" on his website in a list he calls "100 Spiritual Classics." The list includes mystics and pantheists like Meister Eckhart and Tilden Edwards.

Some may be asking right now, "Ok, Richard Foster endorses and promotes those who teach mantra meditation. But does he actually teach this himself?" The answer is a resounding, yes! Throughout his writings, Foster promotes this spirituality. Let's look at some of his comments on the subject:

"[W]e should stop to reflect and to treasure the words, to turn them over and over in our minds, repeating them."8

"Spend some time this week listening to contemplative music designed to quiet you, settle you, deepen you. (Compact discs and tapes from the Taize Community, John Michael Talbot, and the Monks of Weston Priory are especially helpful.)"9

"Christians � have developed two fundamental expressions of Unceasing Prayer. The first � is usually called aspiratory prayer or breath prayer. The most famous of the breath prayers is the Jesus Prayer. It is also possible to discover your own individual breath prayer�.Begin praying your breath prayer as often as possible."10

In a 2004 Youthworker Journal (Youth Specialties) article, contemplative advocate Mike Perschon related the following encounter. He was about to teach a group of Christians contemplative prayer when one woman asked, "Isn't that New Age or Buddhist?" He responded with, "Well, Buddhists do meditate, and there are many New Age meditative practices, but what I am going to teach is Christian meditation." She then asked, "What's the difference." He responded, "Well, on the surface, nothing." Then he explained, "The Buddhist empties the mind for the sake of emptying it. The Christian empties the mind to fill it with Christ." This is an oxymoron. However, the Bible nowhere says to empty the mind in any way. It does say to fill it with Christ, but no meditative practice is required to do this. Perschon adds, that this "growing interest in the disciplines" is largely due "to the huge and continually growing success of Richard Foster's book" (Celebration of Discipline).11 This is my very point.

It is clear that Foster does indeed promote contemplative prayer, and it is even more clear that his philosophy on contemplative prayer aligns with that of Thomas Merton. So the questions must be asked, is Thomas Merton's spirituality compatible with that of Christian leaders like Beth Moore and Max Lucado? And should Merton's and Foster's spirituality be represented on a DVD that is supposed to be for the evangelical church at large? Maybe a better question would be why are trusted Christian leaders on a DVD that highlights and focuses on a spiritual discipline that emphasizes the teachings of Foster? At one time these answers would have been quite obvious, but today such lines of distinction have become blurred and obscure.

The Be Still DVD focuses on the silence. Richard Foster, in speaking of this silence, says: "Contemplative Prayer immerses us into the silence of God. How desperately we in the modern world need this wordless baptism!� Progress in intimacy with God means progress toward silence."12

If Foster's silence becomes the standard vehicle for going deeper with God, the Christian of the future (perhaps the near future), may soon resonate with Thomas Merton, who said: "It is a glorious destiny to be a member of the human race, ... now I realize what we all are .... If only they [people] could all see themselves as they really are ... I suppose the big problem would be that we would fall down and worship each other ... At the center of our being is a point of nothingness which is untouched by sin and by illusions, a point of pure truth ... This little point ... is the pure glory of God in us. It is in everybody."13 That is the crux of the controversy. If one takes the time to research the contemplative prayer movement in its totality, one will certainly find that the above observation by Merton is not just an anomaly but is the standard perception and outcome of contemplative spirituality. That is where Foster's silence will lead those who follow it. It is the ultimate compromise of the Gospel and it simply cannot be ignored.

1. The Springs of Contemplation, p. 266.
2. Interview with Matthew Fox, http://nineoclockservice.tripod.com/mattiefx.htm.
3. Spiritual Classics, p. 17.
4. Celebration of Discipline, 1978, p. 13.
5. Prayer: Finding the Heart's True Home, p.157.
6. Running Against the Wind, 2nd Ed., p. 145.
7. Celebration of Discipline, 1980, p. 13.
8. Celebration of Discipline, 1980, p. 13.
9. From Renovare Perspective Newsletter, http://www.renovare.org/readings_perspective_archive.htm.
10. Prayer: Finding the Heart's True Home, p. 122.
11. Disciplines, Mystics and the Contemplative Life by Mike Perschon, http://www.youthspecialties.com/articles/topics/spirituality/desert.php.
12. Prayer: Finding the Heart's True Home, p. 155.
13. Conjectures of a Guilty Bystander, pp. 157-158.

Sing4Him

August 11th, 2007, 08:36 PM

Also on the Be Stiill DVD is:

Dallas Willard:

Regarding Salvation:

"What Paul is clearly saying is that if anyone is worthy of being saved, they will be saved. At that point many Christians get very anxious, saying that absolutely no one is worthy of being saved. The implication of that is that a person can be almost totally good, but miss the message about Jesus, and be sent to hell. What kind of a God would do that? I am not going to stand in the way of anyone whom God wants to save. I am not going to say "he can't save them." I am happy for God to save anyone he wants in any way he can. It is possible for someone who does not know Jesus to be saved."—Dallas Willard, Apologetics in Action

"As far as the content of what I try to present is concerned it focuses on the gospel of the kingdom of God and becoming a disciple of Jesus in the kingdom of God. SO it doesn't merely have an emphasis on the forgiveness of sins and assurance of heaven as you are apt to find in most evangelical circles. I think that is vital but it is not the whole story."—from Kingdom Living, Dallas Willard

Willard has written the foreword to Ruth Haley Barton's book, Invitation to Solitude and Silence.

Willard recommends several contemplative authors including Richard Foster, Henri Nouwen, Jan Johnson, and Evelyn Underhill

2006- Dallas Willard Participating
in the
Ancient Wisdom Conference

"WAY" of Jesus or Jesus as "THE WAY"David Sheldon Discusses the
Ancient Wisdom Conference
"The conference page purports that "Two thousand years ago, Christian spirituality was new to the world. This was a time before churches as we know them." In other words, this conference is returning us to our ancient "spiritual" roots. (These roots, as articulated, are really mysticism and not truly Christian.)"

Sing4Him

August 11th, 2007, 08:39 PM

From Chapter 5, Pages 89-90
A Time of Departing by Ray Yungen

[M]ystical pragmatism is growing particularly fast through various New Age healing techniques. One such procedure is called Reiki (pronounced ray-key), a Japanese word that translates universal life energy or God energy. It has also been referred to as the Radiance Technique. Reiki is an ancient Tibetan Buddhist healing system, rediscovered by a Japanese man in the 1800s and only recently has come to the West.

The Reiki technique consists of placing the hands on the recipient and then activating the energy to flow through the practitioner and into the recipient. One practitioner described the experience in the following way:

When doing it, I become a channel through which this force, this juice of the universe, comes pouring from my palms into the body of the person I am touching, sometimes lightly, almost imperceptibly, sometimes in famished sucking drafts. I get it even as I�m giving it. It surrounds the two of us, patient and practitioner.

What is this "juice of the universe?" The answer is an important one, and was answered by a renowned Reiki master who explained: A Reiki attunement is an initiation into a sacred metaphysical order that has been present on earth for thousands of years . By becoming part of this group, you will also be receiving help from the Reiki guides and other spiritual beings who are also working towards these goals.

While this is not widely advertised, Reiki practitioners depend on this "spirit guide" connection as an integral aspect of Reiki. In fact, it is the very basis of Reiki. One Reiki master who has enrolled hundreds of other masters spoke of her interaction with the spirit guides: "For me, the Reiki guides make themselves the most felt while attunements are being passed. They stand behind me and direct the whole process, and I assume they also do this for every Reiki Master. WheI pass attunements, I feel their presence strongly and constantly. Sometimes I can see them."

A Christian's initial response to this information might be: "So what. I don't travel in those circles so it does not concern me. This undaunted viewpoint would be valid except for the fact that Reiki is currently growing to enormous proportions and in some very influential circles. (It may even be in your local hospitals, schools and youth organizations.) It is essential to know that many nurses, counselors and especially massage therapists use Reiki as a supplement to their work. It is often promoted as a complementary service.

Even more significant are the numbers involved in this practice. Examine the following figures to catch just a glimpse of the growing popularity of Reiki. In 1998, there were approximately 33,000 Reiki listings on the Internet. Today that number, on some search engines, exceeds one million listings. In just four years, there has been a 3000 percent growth on Internet listings of Reiki! And even that number is just a fraction of those who practice it. One Reiki master delightfully noted this surge of interest when he stated:

Over the years, there has been a shift in the belief system of the general public, allowing for greater acceptance of alternative medicine. As a result, we are seeing a growing interest in Reiki from the public at large. People from all backgrounds are coming for treatment and taking classes.

Another revealing statistic involves Louisville, Kentucky, where 102 people were initiated into Reiki in just a single weekend. This denotes a large number of people are drawn to Reiki in the Bible belt, a traditional and conservative part of America.
The reason for this level of acceptance is easy to understand. Most people, many Christians included, believe if something is spiritually positive then it is of God. A pastor friend of mine recounted a situation in which a Christian, who had some physical problems, turned to Reiki for comfort. When this pastor advised the man that Reiki fundamentally opposed the Christian worldview he became furious and responded with the following defense: How can you say this is bad when it helped me?..."

If the connection between Reiki healing and other metaphysical practices can be seen, then we more fully understand why the following quote is one of the most powerful statements as to the true nature of contemplative prayer. A Reiki master in the course of promoting the acceptance of this method declared: Anyone familiar with the work of " or the thought of" [she then listed a string of notable New Age writers with Thomas Merton right in the middle of them] will find compatibility and resonance with the theory and practices of Reiki. Reiki comes from Buddhism, and as one Merton scholar wrote, "The God he [Merton] knew in prayer was the same experience that Buddhists describe in their enlightenment." This is why it is so important to understand the connection between the writings of Foster and Manning with Merton

http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/reikimertonfoster.htm

Sing4Him

August 11th, 2007, 08:42 PM

Contemplative Spirituality: A belief system that uses ancient mystical practices to induce altered states of consciousness (the silence) and is rooted in mysticism and the occult but is often wrapped in Christian terminology. The premise of contemplative spirituality is pantheistic (God is all) and panentheistic (God is in all).

How did this non-biblical practice enter the evangelical church?

In the mid-seventies three monks wanted to bring contemplative prayer to Christianity. This is how they did it:

"They invited to the abbey ecumenically oriented Catholic theologians, an Eastern Zen master, Joshu Roshi Sasaki, who offered week long retreats on Buddhist meditation, and a former Trappist, Paul Marechal, who taught transcendental meditation. The interaction between these Christian monks and practitioners of Eastern meditation helped distill the practice of Christian contemplative prayer into a form that could be easily practiced by a diverse array of "non-monastic" believers: priests, nuns, brothers and lay men and women." by Joseph G. Sandman (America Magazine 9/9/00)

and here:

http://monasticdialog.com/a.php?id=648

Chris

August 11th, 2007, 08:53 PM

AllforHim

August 11th, 2007, 09:09 PM

:hug I do see the false belief that Max Lucado and other like him are under :nod The fact that he is following these new mystical teaching was a shock to me :ohno Its sad but I agree that contemplative prayer is not scriptural. We must examine everything, and be sure that it lines up with the word of God, lest we too are deceived :doh Thanks for the information sing4Him :hug