Last wishes of a dying woman...

[Adol Christin]

My name is Brian, I'm 24 years old and live in Oregon. I've been lurking on these forums for over a year. I imagine my story is pretty typical. I'll start at the beginning.

I grew up in a Christian home, but despite it all I've always been agnostic. The rest of my family are very strong Christians. A little over a year ago my mother was diagnosed with cervical cancer is it's been a losing battle. Her current state breaks my heart; her face is gaunt and sallow, she's always in pain and losing blood everyday. There are multiple churches and individuals praying for her but nothing, not even the chemo seems to be working. Her dying wish is that I become saved.

I've struggled with this for a long, long time, and I'm finally reaching out for some help. I'm not here to criticize you, but I am here to question you. I need some guidance, and though you're all most likely biased (towards God) and have an agenda (conversition) I still feel like you're the most knowledgable group of people I can talk to about this. I readily acknowledge, right or wrong, your intentions are good.

Where to begin? I have so many questions. I've gone to church before, but I'm usually turned off by how the majority of it is singing worship songs. I'm more interested in the scholary aspect of the Bible. I've tried reading it before but it feels very archaic and is difficult to understand, especially the old testament. I've prayed before, asked God into my life, but I've never felt anything. I've become mostly convinced that there are a lot of people out there looking for something good, and they want it so bad that it manifests in their own mind, becoming real, to them - God.

I'm the kind of person who needs proof. Going on faith seems silly to me...Why should I believe in something I can't see, or hear, or smell, or touch? How can I believe someone rose from the dead? From our understanding with science these miracles that were performed by Christ are impossible. How can I believe it blindly? It goes against common sense. Despite my skepticism let me say that I want it to be true, and I wish to be proven wrong. A Christian version of the afterlife is a lot better than mine.

What is a Christian's answer to science saying the earth has been around for billions of years? Or Dinosaurs? Is it possible the Devil is just a metaphor for temptation? Is there really such a thing as good and evil?

One thing that drives me crazy is when I'm told about someone's personal experience. That they felt, or talked to God. But how do you explain a Muslim, or a Hindu who has similiar experiences as you? Are your experiences somehow more valid? If two people of different faiths both experience the same thing then how can one be right and the other wrong?

I'm just kind of rambling now, but I think this is a good start. I'd like to have an open dialogue and try to learn more. I thank you in advance.

-Brian

[true2yeshua]

I grew up in a Christian home, but despite it all I've always been agnostic. The rest of my family are very strong Christians. A little over a year ago my mother was diagnosed with cervical cancer is it's been a losing battle. Her current state breaks my heart; her face is gaunt and sallow, she's always in pain and losing blood everyday. There are multiple churches and individuals praying for her but nothing, not even the chemo seems to be working. Her dying wish is that I become saved.

Brian,

Welcome to RR. I'm so sorry about your mother's illness, and I have prayed for her and you. The fact that you have reached out to believer's in Jesus Christ is an indication of your sincere desire to understand our beliefs. As a mother, I am able to empathize with your mom's concerns over your eternal destiny.

Being reared in a 'Christian' home does not ensure one's salvation as you realize. There is a time in which each person must make an individual surrender to the Lordship of Jesus Christ. Naturally one must believe in His existence as the Son of God and Savior of men, who accept His free gift of salvation, confessing their sins and wretched state before a Holy God and repenting of their sin - turning from them - and of the self-centered, flesh-gratifying way of life that was the 'old' man, before one can give their life to Christ.

I've struggled with this for a long, long time, and I'm finally reaching out for some help. I'm not here to criticize you, but I am here to question you. I need some guidance, and though you're all most likely biased (towards God) and have an agenda (conversition) I still feel like you're the most knowledgable group of people I can talk to about this. I readily acknowledge, right or wrong, your intentions are good.

Speaking for myself, I have walked with the Lord for many years and have 'thick' skin, so don't worry about asking sincere questions. Understanding, of course, that the answers you receive will be based upon Scripture, and if I am unable to find an answer I will tell you so plainly - while trying to locate the answer for you.

You are operating from a misconception of our role as disciples (followers and students) of Jesus Christ, that being one of an 'agenda'. We are commanded, by our Lord, to preach the gospel unto all men, but the Lord of is responsible for the salvation of souls. Of course I would like to see you come to salvation, but that is up to my Lord and yourself.


Where to begin? I have so many questions. I've gone to church before, but I'm usually turned off by how the majority of it is singing worship songs.


The reason we sing praise songs to God as a congregation is that we are so happy to be in His Presence as a Body of believers. When I worship my Lord with songs I am full of joy because my heart is focused upon Him and my love for Him. Music is an offering to the Lord - a celebration of our joy in Him.


I'm more interested in the scholary aspect of the Bible. I've tried reading it before but it feels very archaic and is difficult to understand, especially the old testament. I've prayed before, asked God into my life, but I've never felt anything. I've become mostly convinced that there are a lot of people out there looking for something good, and they want it so bad that it manifests in their own mind, becoming real, to them - God.


The Bible is easy to understand once you have spiritual eyes to see and to hear.

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God; and the wisdom of God.

Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 1 Corinthians 1:18-25

Having asked God into your life, but not 'felt' anything...we are not to go by feelings, Brian. We are to stand on the Truth of God's Word, which reads:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

As you can see from the text, 'whosoever believes' in Christ shall be saved.

If conversion is authentic, a person will see themselves as a worm. Believing God's Word that the desires/intentions of our hearts is evil all the time. That there is none who does good - not one - no one seeks after righteousness - apart from the transforming power of Jesus Christ upon a darkened heart. Does that make sense?

We have to believe that we are sinners, before we will desire to come to the realization that apart from Christ we are wretched, poor and blind. Prior to conversion we live for self - doing whatever, whenever because we 'want to' OR 'it feels good'. Completely without considering the consequences of that sin - upon ourselves or others. We certainly, prior to conversion, do not consider how our sin effects God!

As to the Word of God being 'archaic' that is often said by persons who have never really come with an open mind to the scriptures. Faith requires trust, and trust in Christ is where it must begin. It's the start point. If you were to begin reading the book of John, then Romans, and, perhaps, Matthew knowing that you are reading God's inerrant, Holy Spirit inspired (through men) Word that would make all the difference.

Try reading a New King James Version, and see if that does not help you. Also, start with the New Testament...chew on the OT later.


I'm the kind of person who needs proof. Going on faith seems silly to me...Why should I believe in something I can't see, or hear, or smell, or touch? How can I believe someone rose from the dead? From our understanding with science these miracles that were performed by Christ are impossible. How can I believe it blindly? It goes against common sense. Despite my skepticism let me say that I want it to be true, and I wish to be proven wrong. A Christian version of the afterlife is a lot better than mine.


Faith is silly to the unregenerate mind. You are in a carnal state - separated from God and under His Wrath. Creation by God is fact, not fantasy. Understand one thing, institutes of higher learning can hinder our ability to have 'child like faith'. We humans love to 'analyze' everything to death! That is not profitable when attempting to read the Word of God. Science is not seperate from God. After all, He created you, me, the earth, the universe, etc. Just the human genome is enough to send our finite minds reeling. How about the intricacies in the human eye alone? Scientists have been coming to salvation because of the discoveries made by the unraveling of the human genome. They realize the incredible organization, intelligence and design involved in the simplest of life. If we are so incredibly smart how come all of the clones we attempt have cancer or some other anomaly that results in death?

God does not ask us to 'believe it blindly', but, however, He will provide evidences in His Word to those who genuinely want answers. Kneel, pray and ask Him to reveal Himself to you. Tell Him you have doubts (He can take it!) that need addressing. Read a few good books by individuals who set out to disprove God, but, instead, found salvation!


What is a Christian's answer to science saying the earth has been around for billions of years? Or Dinosaurs? Is it possible the Devil is just a metaphor for temptation? Is there really such a thing as good and evil?

The earth is 6,500 years old. Go to aig.org and you will find information that will challenge all you have been taught by secular academia! Dinosaurs walked with men...they were not destroyed by the 'astroids/comets' and instant ice age.

Brian, open up a newspaper, turn on the t.v. news, and answer your own question - is there really good vs evil. How can one doubt the reality of evil? There are numerous stories of man's inhumanity to man, which certainly aren't the result of 'good'.

There is evil and there is an enemy of your soul known as the devil. He is a fallen angel who has been tempting men - utilizing our own fallen flesh, which is all too willing to oblige - since the garden of Eden. Frankly, the slickest pr move satan ever did was convincing mankind of his non existence! Dressing him up in a red suit, complete with pointed tail and pitchfork was quite a novel approach at relegating him to things that 'go bump in the night'.

How smooth it is to keep people from God by playing on their pride that 'there is no God'. I mean, let's face it, it is much easier to go about life doing whatever one wants if one can delude oneself into believing there is no consequences to our actions. No accountability to God. Then one becomes god to oneself.

One thing that drives me crazy is when I'm told about someone's personal experience. That they felt, or talked to God. But how do you explain a Muslim, or a Hindu who has similiar experiences as you? Are your experiences somehow more valid? If two people of different faiths both experience the same thing then how can one be right and the other wrong?


There is too much focus on 'feelings' and 'experience' in today's broader church. The facts are that God is who He said He was, Christ the same, and whether or not a person 'feels' anything is irrelevant.

A Muslim serves a false god - as is evidenced by the murderous history this Islam movement has had over the last 1,400 years. A Hindu serves an 'unknowable force' or 'consciousness within' - as is evidenced by the fact that they pray to some 330 million 'gods'.

Having an 'experience' to recount to someone proves nothing really. Simply because Joseph Smith, Mormon/LDS, claimed to have been visited by an angel that supposedly gave him a 'new' revelation beyond the canon of scripture does not mean it happened. Or, say it did, that it was not from a fallen angel. The Book of Mormon certainly contradicts the Bible in a variety of ways. Further, because 'mohammed' claimed to have had a hypnotic state come over him, and while in a trance he wrote the koran, does not mean that it is an authentic encounter with Almighty God or a servant of His, a holy Angel. Moreover, it would appear as though mohammed had a trance-induced encounter with an evil being...who really did not provide 'new' revelation, but rather a 'do-over' of the NT, as in, plagerism.

I know the Christian God as my Creator, Redeemer, Lord and Friend because He has caused a rebirth to take place and I am no longer my own. I have His Word as testimony; His Holy Spirit indwelling me to testify of His Word as Truth, His Presence as the companion who guides me along this winding road we call life...with all it's ups and downs.

It will continue to be my prayer that you find what you are looking for. There are many people on RR that will answer your questions. May God bless the time you spend seeking Him in His Word.

ONE last thing - pardon the length - keep in mind when approaching God's Word that it is reliable, due to the fact that the NT was written in the 1st Cent. A.D. (50-100 A.D.); earliest copy 2nd Cent. A.D. (c. 130 A.D.); # of copies 5,000; Accuracy of Copy 99+%. The Hebrew men that were known as scribes took great care in the transcribing of the Word of God onto scrolls. They would count letters, and if one letter (in that count) was off - they would rewrite the entire letter! Also, take into account the fact that they only thing they had to 'hold on to' and 'pass along' was their genealogy and history, which they took great pride in. They did not have all of the distractions and 'things to do' that we do in our current day. Lastly, the Apostles endured such horrific martyrdom - they were sawn in half, stretched until they died, disembowled, burned alive - yet, they would NOT deny their Lord. Consider that...would someone die for nothing, I think not.

Shalom
________________________
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the traditions of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. Colossians 2:8

[Deepcallstodeep]

Hello Brian... I was reading your post today with tears in my eyes, and even though I am not the best sister in Christ to answer all your questions (there are many smarter than me here on this board), I want you to know that He loves you and longs for you... and we love you too.

There are plenty of academic answers, and many amazingly wise and knowledgeable brothers and sisters here who can minister to your brain in the way that you need.

But the essence of the Lord that I want to give you today is His awesome love and mercy. May He draw you to Him, may He just hug your hurting heart today in a very special way.

As a mom myself, I hold dear that the prayers of a mom are heard by the Lord in a special way... our fervent prayers for our children are the most powerful tool we have in their lives. I want to thank you and bless you for the way you are stepping out and reaching out with all of us, because of your mother's prayers for you. You are honoring her in a very special way by doing this. Let her know you are seeking the truth!

May the Lord bless you on your journey, may your heart just open to Him in this terrible and sad time. May He comfort you and your family.

I love you Brian. Our Lord and Savior loves you even more than you could ever imagine.

We are all here to lift you up and try to answer any questions that we can.

Special peace and blessings to you today,
Jessica

[AllforHim]

:hug Welcome to RR Brian, I pray you'll find the answers you are looking for through the body of Christ.Looks like your off to a good start :nod Praying for you and your mom :pray

[cohen avshalom]

Brian-may god give you and your mother the power.
everyone and everythink has designation,.
i am not christan-but i hoop you will find what you are looking for.
when think should come to you-you will know.
till then you need time to yourself- *edited by admin*
this will make you think.

cohen avshalom charly
israel/haifa

[anath]

Welcome to RR Brian and thank you for the compliment... we have some very knowledgeable and sincere folks here.
Thank you for honoring your dear mother's request. The Bible tells us, seek and ye shall find, knock and the door will be opened. I am praying you will find the
Truth.

[Praise Warrior]

Welcome to another fellow 24-year-old :wave

Where to begin? I have so many questions. I've gone to church before, but I'm usually turned off by how the majority of it is singing worship songs. I'm more interested in the scholary aspect of the Bible. I've tried reading it before but it feels very archaic and is difficult to understand, especially the old testament.

Yeah, most people here are turned off against seeker-sensitive churches with a lot of "show-time fluff" compared to very little Scriptural exegesis. I don't get fed enough at most churches myself. Churches unlike that are difficult to find, but there are some that do not. Have you tried visiting a Messianic/Hebrew Christian congregation? Those congregations strongly emphasize Scripture and they teach Christianity relating it to the Hebrew roots of the Old Testament. It is usually very in-depth, but they spend a lot of time making light of Scripture. House churches may also be in your area which incorporate a lot of Bible study, in depth, with a small enough group where you could ask any questions you want. There would probably little, downscaled worship with them. There are some RR members here who are in or near Oregon that certainly think like you and perhaps could tell you some good churches in the area that are to your preference.

I've prayed before, asked God into my life, but I've never felt anything. I've become mostly convinced that there are a lot of people out there looking for something good, and they want it so bad that it manifests in their own mind, becoming real, to them - God.

God doesn't act like that. When I first surrendered my life over to God, nothing happened like that either. I was fearfully convicted, and I didn't feel any better. In fact, I kept asking Him into my life over and over. I was so scared that if I would go ahead and start living the Christian life assuming I was saved at that point, I may have been deceiving myself as I wasn't sure. I read hundreds of different interpretations on the salvation Scriptures. But, God waits for US to move first. It wasn't until I believed enough, that He would respond and save me, to trust Him as if I was saved, that He took the next step and confirmed and revealed Himself. It was only until I trusted and believed on Him enough to act on my beliefs that I experienced peace. I didn't hear His voice until years later. I didn't cast out a demon until years later. I didn't get called to a ministry until MUCH later. All those would be considered impossible, but were undeniable.

I'm the kind of person who needs proof. Going on faith seems silly to me...Why should I believe in something I can't see, or hear, or smell, or touch? How can I believe someone rose from the dead? From our understanding with science these miracles that were performed by Christ are impossible. How can I believe it blindly? It goes against common sense.

Well, I'm your age. I'm a practical minded person like you, and many others our age. I didn't truly get serious about religion until I saw how increasingly often things I saw and read in the news and that my parents talked about--matched up with what I read in Scripture, that would take place during the end times. Thousands of years ago. I could see that Scripture prophesized the rebirth of Israel thousands of years ago and that it only relatively recently happened. I could see in my own life the weather was becoming worse and more bizarre in frequency than intensity exactly like Scripture prophesized years ago. I could see how peace was becoming the center stage for world policy in the Middle East, exactly like Scripture prophesized. That was amazingly impossible to me. And to me, if Scriptures like that were coming true, that was good enough to accept the rest as well. If you focus on even your own observations, and do the research, you'll see how real and relevant and true Scripture is. Many other young people have concluded just that, in just that way.

Despite my skepticism let me say that I want it to be true, and I wish to be proven wrong. A Christian version of the afterlife is a lot better than mine.

Why do you want it to be true? If it wasn't true, than we wouldn't imagine, or long for, a perfect state that is impossible to achieve in this world. We long for a perfect state, or a world without war and turmoil, because we were originally created for such a world. It is impossible to achieve it in this world, but we still long for it and can picture it, so it probably comes elsewhere, after this. Randy Alcorn's book Heaven goes into it further.

What is a Christian's answer to science saying the earth has been around for billions of years? Or Dinosaurs?

Many times people hold onto empirical science too tightly. Empirical science, I think, is often based on two assumptions: that the most fundamental laws and rules (even physical/mathematical ones) have always remained the same, and that there is nothing or nobody else that would make things seem otherwise. But I don't think those two things can necessarily be assumed. Our most advanced scientific and technological advancements are like rock-and-stick toys to an omniscient God. We won't know everything, we will make wrong assumptions, but I do not hold too tightly to empirical science to answer all the questions. I'm not a Deist, and not even a Christian-Deist. There has been human-crafted gold chains, for instance, found buried in lumps of coal that, according to science, was not possible. Dinosaur footprints have been found next to humans'. Of course, people and groups fund and publicize what they want to fund and publicize.

One thing that drives me crazy is when I'm told about someone's personal experience. That they felt, or talked to God. But how do you explain a Muslim, or a Hindu who has similiar experiences as you? Are your experiences somehow more valid? If two people of different faiths both experience the same thing then how can one be right and the other wrong?

The experiences may appear the same. For instance, glossolalia (speaking in tongues) is not only common among Christians but also shared by other cultures. But what is behind the scenes may be two different things--even though it may have the same effects. The devil likes to imitate what is right next to what is wrong to trick others. But it is not just about experiences.

[ByHisGrace]

Hi Brian,

I was raised in a Christian home too and then there came a time where I really had to make a choice...did I believe in God? I wanted to believe so badly, but I was struggling. So I just got on my knees and prayed to God that He would help me to believe. I needed His help for the faith. He heard my pleas. I prayed with all my heart....and He heard. He gave me such an assurance. Not by experience...He simply gave me faith to believe in Him and His Son Jesus. I then joined a group at church that helped me walk in my faith and grow in Christ. I had such joy! I worried soo much less. I had hope! I trusted God with my problems. I loved watching God answer prayers. I also read Christian books and the Bible. If the Bible is hard for you ask God to help you.

I urge you to seek God! Tell Him you repent of your sins and that you would like Him to live in you. Please keep posting...I can't wait to see how God moves in your life. I will be praying for you.

[fishersofmen]

Welcome Brian, I hope you find a home here. I will pray for your momma, what a wonderful thing for her to want for you, 'salvation' because she wants to spend eternity with you in heaven along with Jesus and the rest of the saved. And what a wonderful thing for you to start your journey before she dies, so she can see some of your progress.
Even though I started a relationship at 5 with speaking to the Lord, my relationship with him as been on and off. I have been trying to find a church 'home' for years, and found one these past few years, but I had some of the same feeling you have had about church, Christians.
I had so much pent up anger about things in my life, that I couldn't sing praises to the Lord, singing felt foreign and fake to me.
I would look around me and see people singing, and some of those people singing I knew were people who were not doing very nice things (heavy drinkers, yelling screaming at their kids, gossipers).
So I was having a real time getting rid of those 'thoughts' and really thinking about why I was at church.
Was I there so people would see me, and think "oh there is a nice girl, doing her duty."
It took me awhile, but eventually, I was able to concentrate, and look past my own guilt, other people's thoughts, and see that I was there...to show Jesus Christ that I loved him, and HE deserved my praise, my singing.
He died on a cross for me, for lousy, depressed, me who has broke all the commandments.
I have had an abortion, committed adultry, lied, stolen, hated my parents, swore, I have broken ALL the commandments.

God has forgiven me, it takes all my power not to be disgusted with myself, because GOD can forgive me, I must learn to forgive myself.
No other god can do that, or would care to do that.

No people who walk in those churches are not perfect, but boy, but who is?
And what is amazing, is that God cleans the slate away.
He takes the guilt, the sorrow, the pain away for those sins.
He won't punish me for eternity for them, because I believe Jesus came to this earth for people like me, and took my guilt to the cross.

How can I not love Him?
I am nothing, He is all.

and I have all of eternity to worship at his feet, and I cannot wait.

:cheer:angel

[5boys2girls]

Welcome Brian! I have to say that I agree with the poster who said to let your mom know that you are starting on this journey. We love nothing more than to know that our prayers are being answered. You can bet that she has been praying for you, and the Lord is answering. We all will pray for you and your mom.
I've been taught that when you honestly want to know the Lord, if you ask Him to reveal Himself, He will. He loves you so much, and while you might not understand that yet, my prayer is that someday you will.
He has brought you this far, keep reaching out.