PDA

View Full Version : Global warming debate 'irrational': scientists


Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 [8] 9

CitySearcher
June 5th, 2007, 12:32 AM
Job:38:1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said, 38:2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? 38:3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me. 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. 38:5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? 38:8 Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb? 38:9 When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it, 38:10 And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors, 38:11 And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed? 38:12 Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place; 38:13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? 38:14 It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment. 38:15 And from the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm shall be broken. 38:16 Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea? or hast thou walked in the search of the depth? 38:17 Have the gates of death been opened unto thee? or hast thou seen the doors of the shadow of death? 38:18 Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all. 38:19 Where is the way where light dwelleth? and as for darkness, where is the place thereof, 38:20 That thou shouldest take it to the bound thereof, and that thou shouldest know the paths to the house thereof? 38:21 Knowest thou it, because thou wast then born? or because the number of thy days is great? 38:22 Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail, 38:23 Which I have reserved against the time of trouble, against the day of battle and war? 38:24 By what way is the light parted, which scattereth the east wind upon the earth? 38:25 Who hath divided a watercourse for the overflowing of waters, or a way for the lightning of thunder; 38:26 To cause it to rain on the earth, where no man is; on the wilderness, wherein there is no man; 38:27 To satisfy the desolate and waste ground; and to cause the bud of the tender herb to spring forth? 38:28 Hath the rain a father? or who hath begotten the drops of dew? 38:29 Out of whose womb came the ice? and the hoary frost of heaven, who hath gendered it? 38:30 The waters are hid as with a stone, and the face of the deep is frozen. 38:31 Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion? 38:32 Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons? 38:33 Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth? 38:34 Canst thou lift up thy voice to the clouds, that abundance of waters may cover thee? 38:35 Canst thou send lightnings, that they may go, and say unto thee, Here we are? 38:36 Who hath put wisdom in the inward parts? or who hath given understanding to the heart? 38:37 Who can number the clouds in wisdom? or who can stay the bottles of heaven, 38:38 When the dust groweth into hardness, and the clods cleave fast together? 38:39 Wilt thou hunt the prey for the lion? or fill the appetite of the young lions, 38:40 When they couch in their dens, and abide in the covert to lie in wait? 38:41 Who provideth for the raven his food? when his young ones cry unto God, they wander for lack of meat.

39:1 Knowest thou the time when the wild goats of the rock bring forth? or canst thou mark when the hinds do calve? 39:2 Canst thou number the months that they fulfil? or knowest thou the time when they bring forth? 39:3 They bow themselves, they bring forth their young ones, they cast out their sorrows. 39:4 Their young ones are in good liking, they grow up with corn; they go forth, and return not unto them. 39:5 Who hath sent out the wild ass free? or who hath loosed the bands of the wild ass? 39:6 Whose house I have made the wilderness, and the barren land his dwellings. 39:7 He scorneth the multitude of the city, neither regardeth he the crying of the driver. 39:8 The range of the mountains is his pasture, and he searcheth after every green thing. 39:9 Will the unicorn be willing to serve thee, or abide by thy crib? 39:10 Canst thou bind the unicorn with his band in the furrow? or will he harrow the valleys after thee? 39:11 Wilt thou trust him, because his strength is great? or wilt thou leave thy labour to him? 39:12 Wilt thou believe him, that he will bring home thy seed, and gather it into thy barn? 39:13 Gavest thou the goodly wings unto the peacocks? or wings and feathers unto the ostrich? 39:14 Which leaveth her eggs in the earth, and warmeth them in dust, 39:15 And forgetteth that the foot may crush them, or that the wild beast may break them. 39:16 She is hardened against her young ones, as though they were not hers: her labour is in vain without fear; 39:17 Because God hath deprived her of wisdom, neither hath he imparted to her understanding. 39:18 What time she lifteth up herself on high, she scorneth the horse and his rider. 39:19 Hath thou given the horse strength? hast thou clothed his neck with thunder? 39:20 Canst thou make him afraid as a grasshopper? the glory of his nostrils is terrible. 39:21 He paweth in the valley, and rejoiceth in his strength: he goeth on to meet the armed men. 39:22 He mocketh at fear, and is not affrighted; neither turneth he back from the sword. 39:23 The quiver rattleth against him, the glittering spear and the shield. 39:24 He swalloweth the ground with fierceness and rage: neither believeth he that it is the sound of the trumpet. 39:25 He saith among the trumpets, Ha, ha; and he smelleth the battle afar off, the thunder of the captains, and the shouting. 39:26 Doth the hawk fly by thy wisdom, and stretch her wings toward the south? 39:27 Doth the eagle mount up at thy command, and make her nest on high? 39:28 She dwelleth and abideth on the rock, upon the crag of the rock, and the strong place. 39:29 From thence she seeketh the prey, and her eyes behold afar off. 39:30 Her young ones also suck up blood: and where the slain are, there is she.

40:1 Moreover the LORD answered Job, and said, 40:2 Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it.



Ecclesiastes 1:12 I the Preacher was king over Israel in Jerusalem. 1:13 And I gave my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all things that are done under heaven: this sore travail hath God given to the sons of man to be exercised therewith. 1:14 I have seen all the works that are done under the sun; and, behold, all is vanity and vexation of spirit. 1:15 That which is crooked cannot be made straight: and that which is wanting cannot be numbered. 1:16 I communed with mine own heart, saying, Lo, I am come to great estate, and have gotten more wisdom than all they that have been before me in Jerusalem: yea, my heart had great experience of wisdom and knowledge. 1:17 And I gave my heart to know wisdom, and to know madness and folly: I perceived that this also is vexation of spirit. 1:18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

Ecclesiastes 8:16 When I applied mine heart to know wisdom, and to see the business that is done upon the earth: (for also there is that neither day nor night seeth sleep with his eyes:) 8:17 Then I beheld all the work of God, that a man cannot find out the work that is done under the sun: because though a man labour to seek it out, yet he shall not find it; yea further; though a wise man think to know it, yet shall he not be able to find it.

...All things will be made know in the end; trust the wisdom of God, not of man....

God bless.

csharpdotcom
June 5th, 2007, 01:55 AM
Job:38:1...

...All things will be made know in the end; trust the wisdom of God, not of man....

God bless.

In other words just believe without question and don't think.

CitySearcher
June 5th, 2007, 02:16 AM
I did not say that or imply that....please don't bait the issue.

YBIC

Edit to add: BTW, I believe Scripture states in hundreds of places, the importance of putting our trust in God and God alone. For one, "Trust in Lord with all thine heart, and lean not unto thine own understanding; in all thy ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct thy paths." Proverbs 3: 5 & 6

Scripture also states many times of the foolishness, folly and vainity of man and mankind's knowledge.

Just because one follows this belief, does not mean that he does not learn the Truth of how all things work, and does not desire to seek the Truth in all things. I make this my constant goal each day, to not only draw closer to my Lord & Savior, but to intensely seek Him and His Truth in all avenues of life. I do not put much stock at all in man's theories, and ways, but that is not to say that man does not have a portion of the Truth intertwined in it's thinking. When one strips away all that man has added to God's creation and physics, one is left with many things that today's scientist think they have discovered or 'figured out'. The Truth; God has already laid the foundations of every imaginable thing. There is nothing new under Heaven.

I will stand with my "believing without question" (for this is commanded of us...it's called Faith!), but the "don't think" part is not part of my walk with God; sorry you were lead to believe so...

BlessedinHim
June 5th, 2007, 10:02 AM
The word was written before the Earth was considered round, and in the bible, the earth is described round. Apparently they didnt catch that point when in study, or they wouldnt have had to discover the roundness of the Earth. Science proves the bible right, the bible has never been proven wrong. And cannot be proven wrong. We are the un knowing one, and God is the all knowing One. Are you smarter than God???

The things going on now in the earth were described in the prophecy contained in the bible, and there is nothing we can do to alter what is going to happen on this earth.

It is a true waste of time to try and stop what the Lord is doing. Can you fight against God and win???

Of course I am not saying we should go trashing the earth we live on, we were entrusted with it to care for it. But we sure lack some common sense on things that are happening now. The green people treating the animals and the earth itself as if it is more important, we were given dominion over it by God, yet these people want to give the earth and animals dominion over people.

KnightErrant
June 5th, 2007, 07:50 PM
Why are so many of us afraid to think? God commanded us to "love Him with all our hearts, all our souls, all our might and all our minds!"[/I] Is it then so hard to imagine that one way we might glorify Him is by striving to understand not only His Word, but His natural revelation as well?
:panic
As Paul wrote, "His glory and power are shown in the things that He has made." 1 Rom King David wrote, "The heavens are telling the Glory of God, and the Firmament proclaims His handiwork." Also, "It is the Glory of God to conceal things, it is the glory of Kings to search them out."
:scripture:yeah
Yet so many of us cower in our little closets, afraid to look at the magnificent cosmos He has made, for fear that it may make us think some thought that
might might offend Him! I think our fear offends Him many times worse.
:shocked
God's truth will never contradict itself; His truth in the Word and His truth written in the Heavens and the Earth will always line up, when we understand both correctly. How does a 15 billion year old universe glorify Him less than a 6,000 year old one? We will not know everything now, but we [I]must ask the questions now.
:candle
Too many seem to be guided by fear, in this case a fear of uncertainty, as though it offends God for us to admit we don't know it all. Why are we so afraid to say those three little words that men find so hard to say, "I don't know?"
:idunno
One unique thing about Christianity is that for 2,000 years, the church has consider reason to be part of Faith. That is one reason we have been able to constantly adapt without compromising the core of our Teaching, Jesus Christ and Him crucified. For some examples of this you might read this book; The Victory of Reason, which describes, among other things, how Christianity gave birth to modern Science.

http://www.amazon.com/Victory-Reason-Christianity-Freedom-Capitalism/dp/0812972333/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/105-8220713-0848418?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1181086093&sr=8-1

Unless of course you take the idea of being People of One Book to absurb extremes. It is o.k. to read others from time to time. And they all don't have to come from Zondervan House. As C.S. Lewis wrote, "The Bible tells us to feed the hungry, but it doesn't give us lessons in cookery."

Iovan
June 5th, 2007, 08:20 PM
Why is it that when it comes to "understanding" and "thinking" the assumption is that those who hold a literal view are cowering from knowledge? I would put forward that long ages, evolution etc. are compromises based on faulty man made theories. There is evidence that throws those theories into serious question, yet they are taken as if absolute truth by the supposedly "reasonable" people.

Same thing with global warming. If there is concensus(or presumed concensus) it is taken as infallible truth by many. What makes man more wise today than in the past? Because we have invented "great" wonders like airplanbes, computers, nuclear technology? How arrogant our modern culture is. And how is it wise to accept poorly supported theories that are pushed by various motives? How is it "reasonable"? How is it glorifying to God to interpret his word based on what unbelieving men say now? Long ages and evolution, people accept these as fact when they are poorly supported assumptions with atheistic motives.

People seem to worship science anymore. They take its word at everything. Look at all the junk science that has been exposed. Look at all the mistakes science has made and had to correct in the last century alone. Each generation thinks it is the most wise, the most knowledgable. Each new generation thinks differently than the last in some way. Man's knowledge is comparable to shifting sands. It is never steady.

It is considered "anti-science" anymore not to fall head over heels with every scientific concensus that comes about. It is considered "anti-science" to hold a literal view of Genesis despite the facts that support this stance. People equate such beliefs as "anti-science" and then use scientific achievments such as computers as an example of the all knowingness of science. It isn't a reasonable assumption.

Christianity did give birth to modern science. Things in the Bible can be reasonably explained by science. However that doesn't mean we are to accept everything science claims just because it claims it. Science has grown and swelled to such an image in culture as if it were its own priesthood. With the common people waiting for its divinations before they form a position. Reinterpreting their beliefs based on what is said for the time period.

Then those sayings change later down the road. Yet were accepted in their time period as rock hard indisputable fact. Yet the process never ends. The generation that exposed problems with scientific theories of a past generation hold their own inconvertable "truths", and continue the worship of man's knowledge.

Just some thoughts to ponder.

BlessedinHim
June 5th, 2007, 08:21 PM
In other words just believe without question and don't think.

I happen to think a lot. I just dont let mens words override what the bible says to me. The Bible has never been proven wrong, but man is wrong quite often.

saved by Grace
June 5th, 2007, 08:41 PM
i had a fellow come in the shop with a brand new car that had a defective throttle position sensor and while i was scanning his car with the shop diagnostic tool he was absolutely bewildered why there was something wrong already with his car.I had to remind him that anything and i mean anything and everything thats made by human hands is not infallible.this also applies to man's thinking as well.only God and what God has created until man's fall into sin is perfect.:nod

BlessedinHim
June 5th, 2007, 08:48 PM
the bible has science stuff in it. It just isnt written like a science text book.

Here is an article for you to think about csharpdotcom.
http://www.direct.ca/trinity/360vs365.html

And part of this is taken from even one book that has been not included in the canon of scripture because it had been added to and it had been thought to have been destroyed. But, guess what, it survived. I understand why they cant add it to the bible as full scripture because it has been apparently added to over the years by who knows. although, in the New testament, there are verses referred to from it. Again, science has proven the Word of God true again.

In the bible is everything we need to know. It contains our beginnings, It contains things about diet, sanitation, good living habits, how to treat some diseases, astronomy, geography, it gives the facts about why there used to be a 360 day year and why it is now out of whack as you can see in the article above, it tells us how to treat each other with respect and love, there is marriage counseling, child raising technique that works, geneaology, tells us about great animals that are extinct now, and the list is on and on.

Has science or social ways proven Gods Word to be wrong? Why would I take mans word over what the bible has to say?

I think alot, and I take Gods word above all else, and know that it is true, because man cannot prove it wrong. All else will fail, Gods word will always remain.

I stake my future on the Rock.

KnightErrant
June 6th, 2007, 11:52 AM
I happen to think a lot. I just dont let mens words override what the bible says to me. The Bible has never been proven wrong, but man is wrong quite often.


The Bible has never been proven wrong, but man's interpretation of it often has. That is why we have to use our heads, guided by the Holy Spirit to rightly divide the Word of God, and not just insist that our denominations traditions that we learned from Mrs. Grundy in Sunday School are equally infallible.

God's Word has so much in it that anyone who thinks they have no more to learn, or is so comfortable and complacent with the truth they have that they need no more truth, is decieving themselves. God has been trying to lead us all into the meat of the word, but if some are satisfied with the milk, so be it.

Slavery used to be defended based on the Word, now it is not. Has our understanding of the Word increased or decreased? Was the interpretation wrong then, or now? You can't have it both ways.

It used to be taught that when lightning struck, it was a sign of God's displeasure. At least until someone in the Insurance industry did a study of what was hit by lightning, and found that church steeples were hit most often of all. That teaching disapeared almost overnight. I guess that some Men found that their interpretation was lacking in insight.

It used to be taught that women had to bear the pain of childbirth, otherwise they were going against the Word by trying to evade the "Curse of Eve." Then when anesthetics were introduced, and the women demanded to have them, that teaching also disappeared, not so quickly, but eventually the most stubbron male had to admit that their interpretation was flawed.

There will always be more to learn, and we will always have to use our Baptised Reason as part of the process, or risk falling short of the God who tells us to love Him with all our minds. So don't tell me we don't need to think when we study the Word.

Yes, the Bible has good science in it, but it was never intended to substitute for Science texts. The Bible is a very specialized book, with very specialized knowledge, the most important knowledge it's true, but not all knowledge. You kept the manual to your computer I assume?