Has the US Constitution been ripped from our hands?

[NovaStorm]

Corporations are running this country now, not we the people..
Here's a good article about this from Pastor Chuck Baldwin

Corporate America: Freedom's Greatest Threat
by Chuck Baldwin
http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/c2007/cbarchive_20070727.html


Well, I won't quote the whole article but he makes some good points and mentions the war in iraq, illegal aliens, business with china ect. all linked to big business running the government to do what they want.

Oh yeah, that article was just posted up at the Constitution Party website a couple weeks ago (he's running for VP :) ). Too true, the man makes a lot of sense.
Same article: http://www.constitutionparty.com/news.php?aid=625

[2nd Chance]

Well, I may live to regret those words, but I think if people are going to assert that "the constitution is being taken away," or some such thing, they have the obligation to back up those assertions with some specifics.



Ted- If you want specifics read the Patriot acts I & II. There isn't even a debate going on about whether we are losing our rights. The naysayers merely claim that it is ok for the government to tread on the constitution as it won't harm American citizens but only terrorists.

If you want specifics then take habeas corpus for example. The government no longer even acknowledges it. The attorney general of the United States denies habeas corpus as a right to the people.

I would not take these things lightly.

[YOU TUBE VIDEO]sQB7yxDxoO4[/YOU TUBE VIDEO]

[Ibelieveinjesus]

Ted- If you want specifics read the Patriot acts I & II. There isn't even a debate going on about whether we are losing our rights. The naysayers merely claim that it is ok for the government to tread on the constitution as it won't harm American citizens but only terrorists.

If you want specifics then take habeas corpus for example. The government no longer even acknowledges it. The attorney general of the United States denies habeas corpus as a right to the people.

I would not take these things lightly.

I don't take these things lightly, but I'd argue that the Gov and the Courts acknowledge the right of habeas corpus many times every day, in both State and Federal Courts.

Where there seems to be an issue is in two areas.. 1) Non US Citizens who are captured and suspected of being Terrorists.. how we treat them, and to what degree Constitutional Protections apply (if at all).. and 2) US Citizens (such as Jose Padilla), who are caught Cooperating, or Conspiring with Foreign Terrorists.

Thankfully, there haven't been a whole lot of examples which fall into the second category, but I concede, it is a more troubling scenario, than the first.

In either situation, however, I don't think the Constitution is being ignored, but there are some complex questions regarding how it applies, if at all, and balancing that against National Security of our Country, and honestly, I think the infringements of our rights that we have seen during this current war, have been extremely minimal.. so minimal that the vast majority of Americans are not even affected.

-Ted

[Bernardd]

What tyrrany we live under.

[NovaStorm]

What tyrrany we live under.For one example? http://www.irs.gov/

[Bernardd]

For one example? http://www.irs.gov/
Don't get me wrong, I never NEVER said we live in paradise of that everything's perfect. Yes, the tax system is a disaster...and so is public education...and so are many other things. But go back through this thread and read the hysteria about how our rights have been taken and how, for well over a century, this country has been stripping our rights and oppressing the people.

Does slavery ring a bell? Does woman's suffrage ring a bell? Remember the draft? This is stripping our rights? (and these are only three examples)

I'm still wondering (and I've asked in a different thread) exactly what "rights" have we lost?

How is our country "self destructing"?

We're living under the ownership of other countries?

And look at this: If you want specifics read the Patriot acts I & II. There isn't even a debate going on about whether we are losing our rights.

Again, how has the Patriot Act removed our rights? Our rights ... to what? Talk on the phone or send an email? THERE ISN'T A DEBATE GOING ON REGARDING THIS ISSUE? Are you kidding me?

And who are all these "innocent" people being locked up and held without a speedy trial? Who are being unlawfully detained? Remember, we have the "bad guy" ACLU who would love nothing more than to defend an "innocent" criminal. We can't even insult our pets withoug going to jail, yet the government is unlawfully detaining us?

[NovaStorm]

Don't get me wrong, I never NEVER said we live in paradise of that everything's perfect. But you did ask for an example, so I provided one. Need more? It's not just that it is "not perfect", it's illegal and unconstitutional.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKePl2gW_3M

[Ibelieveinjesus]

But you did ask for an example, so I provided one. Need more? It's not just that it is "not perfect", it's illegal and unconstitutional.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKePl2gW_3M

It is obviously not illegal, nor unconstitutional... If the IRS was acting outside of the laws passed by Congress, Congress has remedies, and if the laws enacted by Congress are unconstitutional, there is redress in the Courts.

You may not like the Laws passed by Congress, or how the 16th Amendment is interpreted, or that it exists, but that doesn't make tax laws illegal or unconstitutional.

-Ted

[ginger]

Oh yeah, that article was just posted up at the Constitution Party website a couple weeks ago (he's running for VP :) ). Too true, the man makes a lot of sense.
Same article: http://www.constitutionparty.com/news.php?aid=625

Cool. I like the Constitution Party. I read his articles on newswithviews.com

[Bernardd]

But you did ask for an example, so I provided one. Need more? It's not just that it is "not perfect", it's illegal and unconstitutional.

It's unconstitutional ... according to some people. And let's just assume for a minute that you're correct. Don't the "people" have the power to vote for elected officials who will dismantle the IRS (Steve Forbes, among many others?) Of course, there is still no getting around the 16th Amendment which clearly gives Congress the power to implement an income tax.

Now, if enough of us disagree with the 16th Amendment, we can change it. Plain and simple. Yet apparently not enough Americans are burdened by the IRS and the current tax system (though I do hope this changes.....SOON!!!!) And you call this tyrrany? Have we come so far as a people that when we don't like something, we call it oppression and tyrrany?

So yes, I would like more examples.

I hear so much about America's "GREATEST THREAT," but it seems everyday we have a new GREATEST THREAT. Is it China, is it corporate greed, is it terrorism, is it abortion, is it the IRS, or perhaps slavery (nevermind, we solved that one -- and then amended the Consitution).

A few weeks ago the stock market was at an all-time high (and it was perceived as a "bad thing"). Now the DOW has "crashed" below 13,000, and once again it's a "bad thing." Do you realize that no matter what the markets do, it's a "bad thing." Of course, only 6 years ago the DOW crashed below 8,000 just after 9-11 (and that crash was a "bad thing.") Yet 6 years later, it practically doubles (even after the Tech bubble burst of the late 90's).

So I have to ask (once again), what rights have we lost? That it takes 2 hours to board a plane? Or that the government is listening to my phone calls? Question: Since when did we ever have the right to talk "privately" on a telephone? It's not as if big brother forces to us to own a phone.

Maybe our real problem (and perhaps America's GREATESTTHREAT) is that we have TOO MANY assumed rights.