Once a Sheep Always a Sheep, or Salvation Deficit Disorder?

[KnightErrant]

In the first chapter of the Gospel that bears his name, the Apostle John writes;
:scripture
"To those who received Him, He gave the right to become Children of God, even to those who only believe on His Name." God's Grace may well include far more than the stricter believers among us may think. In fact, it certainly does. I would not care to rely on such an incomplete understanding myself, (although who among us can claim a complete understanding,) but I am secure in Jesus, who He is and what He has done. There is nothing I can add to or take away from that. For which I am Eternally thankfull.
:yeah

[jayna]

So I guess that I can safely assume my son who died 3 years ago at 28 has been in hell all this time. By some of the posts here thats what I am getting. This is a very bitter pill to swallow. The way I get through this awful tragedy is by God's promises alone. My son went to church (but not every Sunday), he was saved at 13 and I think he meant it at the time. My son believed that Jesus was the Son of God and died for his sins. The last movie he saw was "Passion of the Christ" (easter Sunday, 2 wks before he passed). He loved it and said it was an 'eye opener'. His bil died 3 months before him and he was worried to death that he wasn't saved. My son didn't read much, so of course that includes the bible.
However my son was still a sinner. In fact he got on a motorcycle with a friend of his while both had been drinking and his friend lost control and that was that. I always assumed that the friend lived because he wasn't saved and God was giving him more time; and my son died because Christ either wanted him home then or was saving him from living a life as a vegetable. I had one day hoped to ask Jesus why my son left me early. But if the only people who are saved are the ones who doesn't sin anymore then I guess this isn't a possibility. I believe in OSAS, but if you truly have to turn from all sin in order to enter heaven then I guess like some of you said 'they were just posers'. If the holy spirit couldn't have been living in my son because he wasn't doing perfectly Godly things and still had sin in him then maybe God let him go. I sure hope not. My family believes my son was saved. But he didn't do everything perfect nor did he ever live without sin. This hurts.
:cry

[jayna]

"To those who received Him, He gave the right to become Children of God, even to those who only believe on His Name." God's Grace may well include far more than the stricter believers among us may think. In fact, it certainly does.

Thanks Knight, that made me feel better. :)

[scrappergirl]

God knows his sheep. He also knows those who have a heart reaching toward Him. A good example of this is David with all his faults.

jayna,
see the above quote as well.
God knows those who have a heart for Him. Nobody is perfect, we all slip and fall. There is a difference between someone who chooses to live apart from God and one who is struggling to live to glorify Him.
imho, most people who worry about their salvation status are already saved. those who aren't saved don't usually care.

[scrappergirl]

let me put it another way...
as i said in an above post, i said 'the prayer' as a teenager, but then lived like i wanted to for the next 13 years. i knew that when i sinned it WAS a sin. i didn't care, because if i DID care, i would have grieved over it. instead, i put my faith in that oh, so popular cheap grace. as paul said, what then, should we keep on sinning? God forbid...but that is EXACTLY waht i did, using my 'salvation' through that prayer as proof that i could do what i wanted now and apologize later. in short, I WAS A POSER. I never worried about my salvation status because i had that lucky charm prayer in my 'pocket'.
and then one day the lights went on. I was afraid for my eternal destination. I finally UNDERSTOOD what it means to really be saved. i went from darkness to light, ignorance to knowledge, lies to truth.

I don't know your son or his circumstances, and I certainly don't know his heart. BUT i know taht God does, and I know you know that too. Such a truth should give you peace, because God is just and fair and good, there is no lie in Him. If your son truly was one of His, then He knows it, even if your son screwed up in the last moments of his life and did something foolish, GOD knows his heart. Just because he may have made a mistake doesn't negate that truth!

edited to add that i read your post over again and i really think you are picking out the parts that can be deemed 'negative' of some of the posts and automatically assuming those things for your son. if you go back and re-read the posts, i think you'll see that nobody is saying that NOT reading your bible every day and NOT going to church every single sunday is a sin worthy of hell. I hope you don't glean that from the posts. NOBODY is saying taht the saved person is PERFECT all of the time. We all have to struggle with the flesh, we all have to fight teh spiritual battles to stay the course. ANyone who says otherwise is either delusional or a liar.

[blitzkreig]

I think saying salvation is excepted from works doesn't mean that those who are convicted to add works to their personal lives aren't saved.

Actually Scripture is quite specific. Add works to your Salvation and Grace is no more Grace.

Add works to your walk ... and you are blessed indeed ... but to your Salvation and you are going it alone.

Go to my thread and read "The Terms of Salvation". The Scriptures are quite direct and very specific ...

It is Christ alone or you are in very hot water.

Very hot.

.

[Buzzardhut]

Originally Posted by blitzkreig
But based upon a count of "numbers" ... it is not beyond reason to conject the wild idea that the number of members in the Body of Christ is that number which replaces those of the Heavenly Host which had fallen under Lucifer.





I've pondered that...



I agree as well, 1/3 of the angels left with Lucifer, and maybe the same amount of humans saved replace that 1/3, not as angels but as doing the work they left behind.

satan was also created with musical instruments and we do have a lot of music going on down here.

I heard a sermon about how the angels aren't singing until after the bride's wedding??? (or after the Rez)

Makes me wonder what other angelic/heavenly activities there are that we never even dreamed of

[blitzkreig]

Buzz what is here and now has more to do with way was then and now is not ... than many even dream to think about ...

I'm sure we won't put it all together, but for some reason ... we are elevated much higher than the angels.

Much higher.

It is quite breath taking when one realizes what our inheritance is ... as joint heirs with Christ.

Sons of God.

Our citizenship in heaven ... a Holy place.

And saved by Grace no less ... when no such benefit was proffered to the non-elect angels.

.

[KnightErrant]

Thanks Knight, that made me feel better. :)

I'm thankfull that I was able to help. I also believe in OSAS, because anything else turns Grace back into Law. We are saved by Grace through Faith, and it's all God's Grace, His unmerited favor, and not by any works of ours, including Faith. (People keep trying to turn Faith into just another Work, rather than a gift of God's Grace.)

God makes it all by Grace so no one can boast that they added anything to His work, and so we can be delivered from fear and serve Him out of Gratitude and Love. He's willing to take the chance that some will coast on their "Fire Insurance," to use a sweet old Baptist phrase, if that makes it possible for others to grow up into a more mature kind of goodness. Perfect Love casts out Fear, and who else has perfect Love besides Father.

We have His promise, "He who began a perfect work in you will bring it to completion at the Day of our Lord Christ Jesus. We aren't at that Day yet, however close we may be.

[buzzbee]

So I guess that I can safely assume my son who died 3 years ago at 28 has been in hell all this time. By some of the posts here thats what I am getting. This is a very bitter pill to swallow. The way I get through this awful tragedy is by God's promises alone. My son went to church (but not every Sunday), he was saved at 13 and I think he meant it at the time. My son believed that Jesus was the Son of God and died for his sins. The last movie he saw was "Passion of the Christ" (easter Sunday, 2 wks before he passed). He loved it and said it was an 'eye opener'. His bil died 3 months before him and he was worried to death that he wasn't saved. My son didn't read much, so of course that includes the bible.
However my son was still a sinner. In fact he got on a motorcycle with a friend of his while both had been drinking and his friend lost control and that was that. I always assumed that the friend lived because he wasn't saved and God was giving him more time; and my son died because Christ either wanted him home then or was saving him from living a life as a vegetable. I had one day hoped to ask Jesus why my son left me early. But if the only people who are saved are the ones who doesn't sin anymore then I guess this isn't a possibility. I believe in OSAS, but if you truly have to turn from all sin in order to enter heaven then I guess like some of you said 'they were just posers'. If the holy spirit couldn't have been living in my son because he wasn't doing perfectly Godly things and still had sin in him then maybe God let him go. I sure hope not. My family believes my son was saved. But he didn't do everything perfect nor did he ever live without sin. This hurts.
:cry

You can trust the Lord to do what is right.