Once a Sheep Always a Sheep, or Salvation Deficit Disorder?

[Emily Ruth]

She had me until the "sin back on the books thing"...... Im not buying, she makes it sound very works based, the only unpardonable sin is the rejection of the gospel that is the rejection of Christ as Lord and Savior....the sin of unbelief.

Acts 15:8
God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us.


I think there is a discernment needed for each believer in their own heart to know the difference between doing works to try to please God to earn anything thing from Him and

those who do works because they LOVE God.

We can discuss this issue all day long but the scriptures do say that faith without works is dead so that is a fact that works are needed for us to evaluate the fruit of a true believer vs a wolf in sheeps clothing

But it is up to the individual to search their own heart for the motives behind those works.

[goinghome]

When a Christian sins it's not just overlooked by God. We need to seek his forgiveness. Sin is abhorred by God period.......whether it be intentional or unintentional.
Where did I say this was not true?

The bible does indeed give instruction for Christian living. Again as the video was referring to forgiveness............

Where did I say this was untrue?

Matthew 6:13-15 (King James Version)


13And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
14For (if ye forgive) men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15But (if ye forgive not) men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
[U]
Got it, read it abillion times, udnerstand it, please stop posting it as proof to your belief when it is not.

This is God's word.....not her's, mine or your's. If you have an issue with it you seriously need to talk to God about it. I mean this in a spirit of gentleness. :)

Hmmmm

Just Dust, either satan or God is using you to try me today. Your are accusing me of saying things I have not said by continuing to admonish me about sin when I have not mentioned that it is OK to sin. This is about the third time now you've suggested that I have a problem with God's word, along with the other poster who thinks our salvation can be taken away. I've been patient, and I forgive you because I know you have been deceived. If you agree with that woman on the video who says God will replace our sin, which He once forgave, back on the books, because we sinned again, then you do not understand scripture and need to seek the Lord about it.




The Bible teaches that man is inherently sinful -- that a sinful nature is a part of all of us (Romans 3:10). This means that even after being saved, every single believer is going to sin from time to time. Thinking that we can live a perfect, sinless life after our salvation is not only unscriptural, but arrogant (James 2:10). If we are not eternally secure, this sinning will cause us to lose our salvation, but how much sin is too much? There is no scriptural “yardstick” given to tell us how many or what kind of sins are enough to void our salvation. Without eternal security, the Bible would describe a situation where Christianity is a perpetual game of Russian Roulette; a life in which condemnation and salvation alternate every time we sin and confess, and we never know if we’re saved or not.

Scriptural passages (Ephesians 2:8-9, Isaiah 64:6) indicate that our attempts at good deeds will never earn us a place in heaven. We cannot make up for our past, present, or future sins by doing good works. A saved believer will, as a natural product of their faith, shun sin and practice good works (James 2:18). If “once saved, always saved” is not true, then by necessity we are saved both by our faith and our works. If we can do sinful things, or not do good things (James 4:17) and lose our security, then our good deeds are a part of our salvation. This is concept is contradictory to Scripture. It also creates an unlivable scenario where we have to try to do enough good to outweigh our sinful natures. The doctrine of “eternal security” goes hand in hand with the doctrine of “saved by faith alone.” To deny eternal security is to endorse a “faith plus works” salvation system.

Jesus Christ made some powerful statements about morality during His earthly ministry. In those three short years, He talked the talk and walked the walk of the toughest moral and ethical system in human history. Most religions focus on the external actions, but Christ took the concept of sin and holiness to a much deeper level. For example, most religions are satisfied to condemn the physical act of adultery, but Christ said “Whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart” (Matthew 5:28).

Christ set the bar for holiness at a level all Christians are called to aspire to, but none can ever fully live up to, because of our sin nature. Just as the law of Moses was meant, in part, to demonstrate to Israel how impossible it was for mortal man to obtain the moral perfection of God, the standards of Christ also remind us of how shallow our best efforts at goodness really are. Thankfully, God has always provided a way for us to be forgiven for our shortcomings. Christ’s sacrifice on the cross served the same purpose for all mankind that the sacrificial lambs did for specific families before His ministry. Christ was a sinless, blameless substitute for our sins. The Bible clearly tells us what Christ’s moral expectations are for us. If we lost our salvation every time we fell short of those ideals, then none of us would be saved for more than a few minutes at a time. If that were true, what purpose was there in His death?

Also, according to the Bible, if we could lose our salvation, then it would be lost forever, because Christ only died once. Hebrews 6:4-6 is an often misunderstood passage, which strongly supports the doctrine of eternal security in two ways: it implies that Christ’s sacrifice must be sufficient for all sins, and states that if it were possible for a person to lose their salvation, it would be forever lost. According to this passage, if a person could do something that cost them their salvation (which they cannot), then it would be “impossible” for them to be re-redeemed.

Once Saved, Always Saved – The New Creation
Critics of the “once saved, always saved” doctrine claim that it gives Christians a license to sin. They presume that those who believe in eternal security intend to accept salvation, and then continue to willingly sin. This is inaccurate, because anyone who has been truly saved is a new creature (2 Corinthians 5:17), has the conviction of the Holy Spirit (John 14:26; 1 Thessalonians 4:8), and now wants to live for Christ. Someone who continues to willingly and blatantly live in sin has not truly accepted Christ (1 John 2:19; 1 John 3:6; James 1:26). While this false belief may be held by some, it is not a part of the teachings of any true Christian church (Romans 3:8).[/QUOTE]

Please read what I have actually written in all of my posts and cease your attacks on my relationship with the Lord.

[Justdust]

She says that if we accept forgiveness, but then do not forgive someone else, that God will put the sin of unforgiveness back on "the books" She literally says that. Are you kidding me? Put it back on the books!!!! So our sin is forgiven, but only if we forgive, or else it's not forgiven.

Oh please! No one is questioning your salvation. Above is your quote and I posted what is in Matthew. This is God's word about forgiving. How is that questioning your salvation?

[goinghome]

Oh please! No one is questioning your salvation. Above is your quote and I posted what is in Matthew. This is God's word about forgiving. How is that questioning your salvation?

you're right, and I edited my post right before you posted this. For that I apologize. I was reading more into your post than was actually there.

We should forgive. Why do you keep bringing that up. We should also never lie, or overeat, or smoke, or gossip....... but the fact that we fail on these or other items God speaks against does not ever, ever mean that He will put it back on the books and throw us into the fire. That is what this woman is saying. Again, and I don't know why you keep skipping over this, but she is using the goat/sheep judgement as an example of how God will treat a born again Christian. It is not true. Why won't you address this? Possibly because it plays against your point?

[KitsapGirl]

The NKJ and the NIV go against what God said in Revelation...not to take away and they do...we are to obey God they don't.

By that definition, the KJV would also be in error...since they wrote it in the kings english...not the original languages. You always lose something in translation. NKJV only changes those words that are out of date...not the purpose or meaning of the words.

[Justdust]

you're right, and I edited my post right before you posted this. For that I apologize. I was reading more into your post than was actually there.

We should forgive. Why do you keep bringing that up. We should also never lie, or overeat, or smoke, or gossip....... but the fact that we fail on these or other items God speaks against does not ever, ever mean that He will put it back on the books and throw us into the fire. That is what this woman is saying. Again, and I don't know why you keep skipping over this, but she is using the goat/sheep judgement as an example of how God will treat a born again Christian. It is not true. Why won't you address this? Possibly because it plays against your point?


That's not how I took it. Thrown into fire?



I think she means that if you're a Christian you're considered a "sheep" and if not you're a "goat". :)

[goinghome]

The Bible teaches that man is inherently sinful -- that a sinful nature is a part of all of us (Romans 3:10). This means that even after being saved, every single believer is going to sin from time to time. Thinking that we can live a perfect, sinless life after our salvation is not only unscriptural, but arrogant (James 2:10). If we are not eternally secure, this sinning will cause us to lose our salvation, but how much sin is too much? There is no scriptural “yardstick” given to tell us how many or what kind of sins are enough to void our salvation. Without eternal security, the Bible would describe a situation where Christianity is a perpetual game of Russian Roulette; a life in which condemnation and salvation alternate every time we sin and confess, and we never know if we’re saved or not.
Scriptural passages (Ephesians 2:8-9, Isaiah 64:6) indicate that our attempts at good deeds will never earn us a place in heaven. We cannot make up for our past, present, or future sins by doing good works. A saved believer will, as a natural product of their faith, shun sin and practice good works (James 2:18). If “once saved, always saved” is not true, then by necessity we are saved both by our faith and our works. If we can do sinful things, or not do good things (James 4:17) and lose our security, then our good deeds are a part of our salvation. This is concept is contradictory to Scripture. It also creates an unlivable scenario where we have to try to do enough good to outweigh our sinful natures. The doctrine of “eternal security” goes hand in hand with the doctrine of “saved by faith alone.” To deny eternal security is to endorse a “faith plus works” salvation system.

Jesus Christ made some powerful statements about morality during His earthly ministry. In those three short years, He talked the talk and walked the walk of the toughest moral and ethical system in human history. Most religions focus on the external actions, but Christ took the concept of sin and holiness to a much deeper level. For example, most religions are satisfied to condemn the physical act of adultery, but Christ said “Whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart” (Matthew 5:28).

Christ set the bar for holiness at a level all Christians are called to aspire to, but none can ever fully live up to, because of our sin nature. Just as the law of Moses was meant, in part, to demonstrate to Israel how impossible it was for mortal man to obtain the moral perfection of God, the standards of Christ also remind us of how shallow our best efforts at goodness really are. Thankfully, God has always provided a way for us to be forgiven for our shortcomings. Christ’s sacrifice on the cross served the same purpose for all mankind that the sacrificial lambs did for specific families before His ministry. Christ was a sinless, blameless substitute for our sins. The Bible clearly tells us what Christ’s moral expectations are for us. If we lost our salvation every time we fell short of those ideals, then none of us would be saved for more than a few minutes at a time. If that were true, what purpose was there in His death?

Also, according to the Bible, if we could lose our salvation, then it would be lost forever, because Christ only died once. Hebrews 6:4-6 is an often misunderstood passage, which strongly supports the doctrine of eternal security in two ways: it implies that Christ’s sacrifice must be sufficient for all sins, and states that if it were possible for a person to lose their salvation, it would be forever lost. According to this passage, if a person could do something that cost them their salvation (which they cannot), then it would be “impossible” for them to be re-redeemed.

Once Saved, Always Saved – The New Creation
Critics of the “once saved, always saved” doctrine claim that it gives Christians a license to sin. They presume that those who believe in eternal security intend to accept salvation, and then continue to willingly sin. This is inaccurate, because anyone who has been truly saved is a new creature (2 Corinthians 5:17), has the conviction of the Holy Spirit (John 14:26; 1 Thessalonians 4:8), and now wants to live for Christ. Someone who continues to willingly and blatantly live in sin has not truly accepted Christ (1 John 2:19; 1 John 3:6; James 1:26). While this false belief may be held by some, it is not a part of the teachings of any true Christian church (Romans 3:8).


from allaboutGod.com I don't think this stood out in my previous post.

[Calidamo]

Did the thief on the cross earn his salvation?

Luke 23:42-43
42Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.[f]"

43Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise

[goinghome]

Did the thief on the cross earn his salvation?

Luke 23:42-43
42Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.[f]"

43Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise


Oh, that's a good point. And even more to your point, did the thief have time to jump off the cross and serve in a soup kitchen to the homeless? All people who saw that thief die on the cross next to Jesus most likely assumed he was headed to hell. Only Christ knew that the thief had truly accepted Him as his Lord and Savior. We can never equivocate works to salvation, or lack of works to lack of salvation.

[Justdust]

Did the thief on the cross earn his salvation?


Did someone say you could? If so I must have missed it. :)