Once a Sheep Always a Sheep, or Salvation Deficit Disorder?

[goinghome]

I like you - I really do and I see you are very sincere too.

Did you know that Billy Graham started the simple gospel - catch phrases like 'accept Jesus as your personal savior and you are saved'?
And here we are today with churches full of false converts destined to hell because they believed it was just a simple prayer. They perished because they did not love the truth.

My response would be "You must be born again and through your rebirth as a new creation through the price Jesus paid to redeem you - you will be saved."

With that - maybe we don't understand what it means to accept Jesus as our personal savior. What it means is that we agree to be crucified with Him on the cross and to be judged through His righteousness.



So - when we accept Jesus as our personal savior - we die with Him and He pays our price. Time is not an issue in this miraculous occurance. We face our judgment (that we would have faced at the great white throne) and instead of God's wrath - Jesus offers His payment in our place and we are judged righteous because of Him - we are judged 'account paid' because of Him.

But now that we have died and been born again a new creation - who are we? We are now living through the heart of Christ through the Holy Spirit.



You are looking for catch phrases bless your heart - but this is far too important for people to understand than just saying a phrase and then going about ones life as they did before. A lot has happened in the course of that phrase and there should be evidence of that major life change eventually.
For me it was pretty much right away but I still sin - and will continue to do so until I am called home.

I think the part that might be missing is Lordship. Christ must be our Lord and Savior. The people who we call false converts are the prayer reciters, believing Jesus is the savior, not THEIR Lord and Savior. Some people try to separte these 2 titles, but they are one in the same. If we do not accept Him as our Lord, it is impossible for Him to be our Savior. Lordship is ongoing, we have to be taught how to be His servant and allow Him to be our Lord. But salvation is still an event. So, we must accept both to be saved, but being saved once it happens it happens, and Lordship continues to be learned as we fall and get back up.

[Emily Ruth]

I think the part that might be missing is Lordship. Christ must be our Lord and Savior. The people who we call false converts are the prayer reciters, believing Jesus is the savior, not THEIR Lord and Savior. Some people try to separte these 2 titles, but they are one in the same. If we do not accept Him as our Lord, it is impossible for Him to be our Savior. Lordship is ongoing, we have to be taught how to be His servant and allow Him to be our Lord. But salvation is still an event. So, we must accept both to be saved, but being saved once it happens it happens, and Lordship continues to be learned as we fall and get back up.

Yes - I can definitely agree with that. If we say that though - people immediately jump and start arguing against 'lordship salvation' as it is considered works.

I really think that if people simply focus on what receiving Him as our savior really means - it might help them to understand the Lordship issue.

Maybe we can work on it together to come to a way to come up with something in between what you would say and my 'dissertation' LOL

[Emily Ruth]

Loving God is a reaction to Who and What He is and did. They kept citing what they had done, their works they did in His name. They miss the main point of our beliefs and faith; He is doing the work through them. They take credit for doing good things, instead of giving it to Him. They didn't fall at His feet and point out their sinfulness, or cry out for His love or forgiveness.



Becareful here, though, because the ones He said, I never knew you to pointed to their actual actions, unless you think it is suggesting they are liars. So, from man's POV they had put forth good fruit (or works, I should say), casting out demons and such.



I'll have to disagree on this one. Faith is how we are to live, hanging everything on Christ, and God's promises. Would I expect to see good fruit from a Christian? Sure, but I'm personally not called to be a fruit inspector. I don't pastor a church, nor am I in a leadership position, the main reason that leaders are called to do so is to keep the other believers from stumbling, that still doesn't really touch on a person's salvation.


Please refer back to my post 82. You and I are not going to agree as we are trying to discuss a spiritual issue in human wisdom.

I continue to suggest that we try not to do so any further and believe we can both pray over the scriptures and let the Lord teach.

[goodboy]

I like you - I really do and I see you are very sincere too.


I like you too. (:

I think at this point we can agree to disagree.
In any case, it was a good discussion.
Not to say I won't discuss this further in the future, but I think I am about done for now. (:

The cool thing is that we will meet each other soon in the Rapture!

God bless!
Goodboy

[Emily Ruth]

I like you too. (:

I think at this point we can agree to disagree.
In any case, it was a good discussion.
Not to say I won't discuss this further in the future, but I think I am about done for now. (:

The cool thing is that we will meet each other soon in the Rapture!

God bless!
Goodboy


Same here. Not really sure what we are still disagreeing about but I will leave that alone at your request.

And yes! We will meet very soon.

[goinghome]

Yes - I can definitely agree with that. If we say that though - people immediately jump and start arguing against 'lordship salvation' as it is considered works.

I really think that if people simply focus on what receiving Him as our savior really means - it might help them to understand the Lordship issue.

Maybe we can work on it together to come to a way to come up with something in between what you would say and my 'dissertation' LOL


My take has always been that there's nothing different between salvation and what they call Lordship salvation. The fact that He's able to be Savior requires that He be the perfect sacrifice, our Lord, Son of God. He's not just one or the other, He's both. If you believe He's God, you have to believe He's your God, or Lord. I never understood the separation. But I'm really glad we seem to have landed on the same ground with this thing. :thumb

[Emily Ruth]

My take has always been that there's nothing different between salvation and what they call Lordship salvation. The fact that He's able to be Savior requires that He be the perfect sacrifice, our Lord, Son of God. He's not just one or the other, He's both. If you believe He's God, you have to believe He's your God, or Lord. I never understood the separation. But I'm really glad we seem to have landed on the same ground with this thing. :thumb


Me too :hug

[canuckmedic]

John 6:29
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

The just live by faith. Faith is not simple belief, and it's not going around saying, "Lord, Lord." It is walking from faith to faith trusting on and in the Son. Those people, in Matthew, cited only their works to try to get in, and the verse I quoted by Paul would show they did not love God.

This stuff can be so confusing, but Kliska you made it a shade clearer for me.

I have been struggling mightily with this lately, fearing for my salvation every time I sin. These threads don't seem to help.

[Just A Clay Pot]

Lift up your eyes on high
And see who has created these stars,
The One who leads forth their host by number,
He calls them all by name;
Because of the greatness of His might and the strength of His power,
Not one of them is missing. (Isa. 40:26)

So, God Almighty made all the stars, moves them where He wants, knows each by it's name, and sustains them through His might and power.

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. (Rom. 10:13)

I think His promise is so powerful that He can keep us, even when we stumble upon sin.
I'd hate to think that any sin could be big enough to force Him to break His promise.
(Except, of course, blasphemy of the Spirit, which would be a person's rejection of His Word outright. Hard to believe in His promises when you call Him a liar, so I don't see that as applying here.)

[goodboy]

One last point I would like to make.

Salvation is a Free Gift.
Romans 5:15-16
To get this “Free Gift” the only requirement is that you must accept it.
So what then does it mean to accept something?

If I give you a gift and you pass it on to someone else, have you really accepted it?
If I give you a gift and you never take it home, have you really accepted it?
If I give you a gift but you never unwrap it, have you really accepted it?
In the cases above you have not really accepted the gift, you have simply received it.

Another example of the idea of acceptance is being part of a group, club or whatever.
We can always find someone who is a member of some group or even family who is not really accepted.

So my point here is that acceptance has to do with sincerity not just action. The action of receiving a gift does not prove acceptance. The action of saying a prayer to make Jesus Christ your personal savoir does not prove acceptance either. Only you and God know if you were sincere when you prayed.

So I say if you want to know if you are truly saved, just look into your heart and decide if you truly accepted Jesus Christ as your savoir. What was your motive for saying this prayer? Was your objective to be a part of what God has done through his son and become a Christian? If so, then you are saved. If you were only repeating what you were told to say, then you are not saved.

Goodboy