Once a Sheep Always a Sheep, or Salvation Deficit Disorder?

[goodboy]

One last point I would like to make.

Salvation is a Free Gift.
Romans 5:15-16
To get this “Free Gift” the only requirement is that you must accept it.
So what then does it mean to accept something?

If I give you a gift and you pass it on to someone else, have you really accepted it?
If I give you a gift and you never take it home, have you really accepted it?
If I give you a gift but you never unwrap it, have you really accepted it?
In the cases above you have not really accepted the gift, you have simply received it.

Another example of the idea of acceptance is being part of a group, club or whatever.
We can always find someone who is a member of some group or even family who is not really accepted.

So my point here is that acceptance has to do with sincerity not just action. The action of receiving a gift does not prove acceptance. The action of saying a prayer to make Jesus Christ your personal savoir does not prove acceptance either. Only you and God know if you were sincere when you prayed.

So I say if you want to know if you are truly saved, just look into your heart and decide if you truly accepted Jesus Christ as your savoir. What was your motive for saying this prayer? Was your objective to be a part of what God has done through his son and become a Christian? If so, then you are saved. If you were only repeating what you were told to say, then you are not saved.

Goodboy

[HeIsEnough]

So I say if you want to know if you are truly saved, just look into your heart and decide if you truly accepted Jesus Christ as your savoir.

:hat



Matthew 12

19He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets.

20A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory.

21And in his name shall the Gentiles trust.

The Lord is far more patient than men. He peers directly into the heart and sees our intentions, our motivations, our hopes and dreams. Many men are rejected by other men, but God looks where men cannot.

"You don't measure up, you seem unworthy, you are not saved", all the calls and accusations of the enemy.

Time is the one thing that men cannot overcome. If it be real, it is the Lord who will cause it to grow, we can only plant or harvest. So, strengthen, encourage, admonish, rebuke, but heaven forbid, don't snuff out a smoldering flax.

[HeIsEnough]

They kept citing what they had done, their works they did in His name.


The Pharisee's would put all of us to utter shame. As to matters of the law, they were virtually blameless.

This one thing they lacked.....it's not good enough.

You are good on all these things you say?

Then do this.

Did that as well, then here is another thing for you to do.

The cycle will never end.

The fruit of the Spirit is not so much what you do, it is the affect from the cause. That the Spirit touches a man, we will eventually see all these things. Let them grow together so we may see all these things.

When a man does the Fathers will, that same man will trust in Christ for his very own righteousness. The Father gives it freely, free of charge to all who come to Him. There is a rest of God we can enter, it is a rest from our own works, and take up His work. Then a man will be accepted, his work will be seen by all as coming from God. Its supernatural. Its good to be reminded that we are to believe in the One who was sent. God doesn't need us to do anything for Him, He desires us to abide in Him, then we will be given work He has already prepared. :thumb

[Hootmon]

There is a rest of God we can enter, it is a rest from our own works, and take up His work. Then a man will be accepted, his work will be seen by all as coming from God. Its supernatural. Its good to be reminded that we are to believe in the One who was sent. God doesn't need us to do anything for Him, He desires us to abide in Him, then we will be given work He has already prepared. :thumbExcellent!


For we who have believed do enter into the rest, as He said, "I have sworn in My wrath that they should not enter into My rest;" although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For He spoke in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: "And God rested the seventh day from all His works." And in this place again, "They shall not enter into My rest."

Since then it remains that some must enter into it, and since they to whom it was first preached did not enter in because of unbelief, He again marks out a certain day, saying in David, "Today," (after so long a time). Even as it is said, "Today, if you will hear His voice, harden not your hearts." For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day.

So then there remains a rest to the people of God. For he who has entered into his rest, he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from His. Therefore let us labor to enter into that rest, lest anyone fall after the same example of unbelief.
(Heb 4:3-11)

[Kliska]

When a man does the Fathers will, that same man will trust in Christ for his very own righteousness. The Father gives it freely, free of charge to all who come to Him. There is a rest of God we can enter, it is a rest from our own works, and take up His work. Then a man will be accepted, his work will be seen by all as coming from God. Its supernatural. Its good to be reminded that we are to believe in the One who was sent. God doesn't need us to do anything for Him, He desires us to abide in Him, then we will be given work He has already prepared.

:thumb

Yeppers, which is why I love one of the names of the Lord in discussions such as these; The LORD our Righteousness; Jehovah Tsidkenu. :nod

[goodboy]

:hat



The Lord is far more patient than men. He peers directly into the heart and sees our intentions, our motivations, our hopes and dreams. Many men are rejected by other men, but God looks where men cannot.

"You don't measure up, you seem unworthy, you are not saved", all the calls and accusations of the enemy.

Time is the one thing that men cannot overcome. If it be real, it is the Lord who will cause it to grow, we can only plant or harvest. So, strengthen, encourage, admonish, rebuke, but heaven forbid, don't snuff out a smoldering flax.

:thumb

[Emily Ruth]

All of these things are so true. But the scripture that sent me to my knees to be sure of my salvation and I believe brought me to a true relationship with Him was Matthew 7:21-23 and my heart is so burdened for those who are deceived into thinking they are saved when they show no change in their life or bear no fruit.

Salvation is not by works but faith without works is dead. I want to do all I can to help make sure that NO ONE hears the words: "I never knew you" from our Lord when it is too late to learn they were deceived.

2 Thes 2:10 - they perish because they did not love the truth

[HeIsEnough]

All of these things are so true. But the scripture that sent me to my knees to be sure of my salvation and I believe brought me to a true relationship with Him was Matthew 7:21-23 and my heart is so burdened for those who are deceived into thinking they are saved when they show no change in their life or bear no fruit.

Salvation is not by works but faith without works is dead. I want to do all I can to help make sure that NO ONE hears the words: "I never knew you" from our Lord when it is too late to learn they were deceived.




Matthew 7

15"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'


Peace Emily. All signs in the text point to people who actually did quite a bit of works. Appealing to our own works in front of Christ at the judgement, will likely get that response. You can see an inherent dilemma in 'showing no change' from our perspective. Pressing someone to change may actually get the above scenario to happen.

They may attempt to work all the more diligently, thinking they are preserving a place in heaven for themselves. Christ makes it clear throughout the scriptures it is something we cannot earn. And if we think we can earn it, we missed the message completely. The message is that we trust, love and rely on Christ for everything, and appeal to His work for entrance into heaven. When we do that and truly believe this in our heart, our love for God will compel us to do all those 'good works', for the proper reasons, rather then thinking our filthy rags have any merit in the equation.

We present the true gospel, explain it in the clearest terms, and the person themselves must 'step up to the plate'. If they are born again, they will display fruit because only good fruit comes from a good tree. The Father will prune for more fruit.

Looking at the different soils explains everything to me. To one we see going through some fiery trials, we strengthen and encourage them, explaining these things must happen. To one who still has the burden of the world hanging around their neck, we admonish them to reject this world and rely on Christ for strength in doing it. These are the people we meet today.

[Emily Ruth]

Peace Emily. All signs in the text point to people who actually did quite a bit of works. Appealing to our own works in front of Christ at the judgement, will likely get that response. You can see an inherent dilemma in 'showing no change' from our perspective. Pressing someone to change may actually get the above scenario to happen.

They may attempt to work all the more diligently, thinking they are preserving a place in heaven for themselves. Christ makes it clear throughout the scriptures it is something we cannot earn. And if we think we can earn it, we missed the message completely. The message is that we trust, love and rely on Christ for everything, and appeal to His work for entrance into heaven. When we do that and truly believe this in our heart, our love for God will compel us to do all those 'good works', for the proper reasons, rather then thinking our filthy rags have any merit in the equation.

We present the true gospel, explain it in the clearest terms, and the person themselves must 'step up to the plate'. If they are born again, they will display fruit because only good fruit comes from a good tree. The Father will prune for more fruit.

Looking at the different soils explains everything to me. To one we see going through some fiery trials, we strengthen and encourage them, explaining these things must happen. To one who still has the burden of the world hanging around their neck, we admonish them to reject this world and rely on Christ for strength in doing it. These are the people we meet today.

I believe we are in absolute agreement and you are simply misreading my points.

My points are for people to simply not rely on their own wisdom or understanding based on what man has told them (say this prayer and you are saved) but to examine their hearts and turn to the Holy Spirit for confirmation. He is the only one qualified to confirm to any soul their eternal destiny.

1 John, Gal 5 and Eph 5 describe the heart of a new creation in Christ Jesus. We are compelled to do self inspection for the very reason as to not hear those words in Matthew 7.

Just going to the Lord's table when taking communion is commanded to inspect our hearts:

1 Corinthians 11:27
Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord.

[HeIsEnough]

I believe we are in absolute agreement and you are simply misreading my points.

I am glad we are in agreement.

I believe it is fruitful to discuss both aspects of this, so don't take it that I am presuming upon your actions.


My points are for people to simply not rely on their own wisdom or understanding based on what man has told them (say this prayer and you are saved) but to examine their hearts and turn to the Holy Spirit for confirmation. He is the only one qualified to confirm to any soul their eternal destiny.

Funny thing about this though...I see more then a few who push others into self-inspection, all the while not so subtly hinting that this or that person is not saved. We are never told to do that either, but I see it happen just the same.

No man can give another assurance of salvation, it is impossible by the very nature of what we are discussing. As you say, only He can confirm. People can, however, cause others to doubt and to stumble.

It is a fine line, but a perfect line that we can walk, whereby we cause truthful reflection without sowing doubt. I believe it can be achieved. There seems to be as many relying on their works as there are those relying on citation of a few words, imo. Combating both in love is a goal of mine.