Once a Sheep Always a Sheep, or Salvation Deficit Disorder?

[truthseeker815]

Thanks for the clarification,HIE & Kliska,I totally agree with all you both stated!

[Kliska]

I understand that and this scripture came to mind.What I'm looking at is the "severity" of punishment,if you want to call it that.In other words,the believer is not being "punished" for sin-his disobedient works(wood,hay and stubble) are burned(destroyed),but he is not "punished" for sin,though he may come through it as by fire.I realize disobedience is sin-but we're not dealt with because of our "sin nature".I have a hard time connecting the Bema Seat judgement with punishment,rather than loss of rewards.That's just my take on it,Obadiah....

:thumb I see it more as reward, than punishment, for everyone there. Afterall, here we will be in a glorified new state, our sin totally taken care of already, but we still have those old works or actions with us; the good and bad. So, as with our sin, The Lord takes care of them for us, and chucks the bad, and let's us keep the good. So, regardless of how many "good" works we produce with the help of the Spirit, even those of us who may have not had many will be rewarded by all the bad being taken care of.

[truthseeker815]

:thumb I see it more as reward, than punishment, for everyone there. Afterall, here we will be in a glorified new state, our sin totally taken care of already, but we still have those old works or actions with us; the good and bad. So, as with our sin, The Lord takes care of them for us, and chucks the bad, and let's us keep the good. So, regardless of how many "good" works we produce with the help of the Spirit, even those of us who may have not had many will be rewarded by all the bad being taken care of.

Agreed-that's exactly as I see it-we're ALL going to be greatly rewarded just by being present there!I would be happy sweeping the golden streets!

[BlessedinHim]

if you look, I am not sure of the significance, but since there are differences, I am sure there is some significance, there are abomination to God and abominations to yourself, abomination to Israel, abomination to Egypt.... What is the significance of the difference of these statements?

[Obadiah]

Blessed:

You're right. There are things which are abominable in the sight of God, and things which are abominable in the sight of others (sheep to the Egyptians, for example).

But the default value -- if Scripture simply says "It's an abomination" without specifying to whom -- is that it's abominable before God.

It's clear from context that eating treif is abominable in God's estimation, not that of the Egyptians or whomever.

My point is that just because something's on the list of "abominations" doesn't make it of equal gravity with other entries on that list. Eating a ham sandwich vs. murdering the innocent... simply not equivalent.

[BlessedinHim]

I know I used an old testament book, Proverbs, but eating ham is not an abomination. Things were dealt with a bit differently in the OT than they are now.

so, do you consider homosexuality or lying a worse sin?

according to what is written in the new testament, if you have broken only a little part of the law, you have broken the whole law..... we only have one of two answers for us.
Be saved by belief in Jesus Christ through faith alone or you pay your own penalty which is death.

Here, we should not make it more complicated than it has to be. Whatever happens on the other side, we will find out when we get there. We do not know the wonders on the other side until we reach them.

Revelation 20:15
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

I dont see any difference of sin in that verse.

[Obadiah]

But eating ham was an abomination. So, within those parameters, was it no worse to commit murder than to eat a ham sandwich?

I'm not sure why you asked me whether lying or homosexual intercourse is worse. I'd say in general that sexual sin is worse than lying, but I could imagine a context in which the consequences of telling a lie might make it worse.

You (and others) keep trotting out James 2:8-13. But I explained above how that makes all sins equal specifically with regard to justification. I've demonstrated amply that James 2:8-13 is not germane to the issue of the relative severity of different sinful acts. Can we just put a rest to James 2:8-13, acknowledge what's intuitively obvious about some acts being worse than others, and leave it there?

[HeIsEnough]

I'd say in general that sexual sin is worse than lying...


I do believe Paul indicates sexual sin is specifically insidious:



1 Corinthians 6:18 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=53&chapter=6&verse=18&version=31&context=verse)
Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body.


In regards to salvation, all sin is the same. In regards to how sins affect ourselves and others, they do differ.

[truthseeker815]

I agree,HIE.Something I will reiterate you just mentioned on this topic,ALL sin has its consequences in the here and now,for the believer and unbeliever.....

[BlessedinHim]

Earthly consequences to sin do differ. Heavenly consequences, well, they dont.

as stated earlier, if you are not saved by the grace of God, and you broke any part of the law, you are toast.

Revelation 20:15
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

so, ultimately, what is the difference in the end? saved or unsaved?

It says you can be forgiven of any sin except one which is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

I really think in the view of a new believer, they would be relieved to find out that all their sins in the eyes of God are all SIN and can be forgiven regardless of what the sin was. That takes the focus and puts it on God not on us. God forgives us when we ask and believe. Once we ask and believe, we do not have to fret over the past, whatever it was. That puts a liar and a thief on the same page as an adulterer and murderer.