Once a Sheep Always a Sheep, or Salvation Deficit Disorder?

[OVemLogo]

Regarding the verse 6 in chapter 6, I think the ISV translates this best (a translation with the right marketing to surpass the NIV as a standard):

http://www.isv.org/catacombs/hebrews_6v6.htm

Greek is a rich language, and a careful study of the verb tenses makes a huge difference.

The ISV has translated Hebrews 6:6 as follows:

and who have fallen away, as long as they continue to crucify to themselves the Son
of God and to expose him to public ridicule.

As for the ISV, they are almost done translating it. Check out the previews section of that website to see their OT, a work in progress. The NT is done, and it should be interesting to see what happens. I personally like the ESV right now as it reminds me of the KJV, but for this verse I think ISV hits the target.

[Biblenuggetlady]

http://www.carm.org/devotions/assurance.htm

Excerpt:


We all have our struggles and we all need to take into account the fact that we are still sinful and we are going to struggle with our sin. But, if you begin to doubt your salvation because you don't "fee" saved, then stop trusting your feelings and start trusting God at His word. Ask yourself if you are struggling against your sin. If you aren't, maybe you aren't saved. But, if you are, then that is a sign of life. Ask yourself if you believe in the Trinity, that Jesus is God in flesh, and that He died and rose from the dead. If you do, that is a sign of spiritual renewal. Ask yourself if you believe what Jesus said about Him not faking you out, about Him giving to you the Spirit if you ask. If you do, then that means you are believing Him at His word. Take your eyes off your feelings and failures and put them on Christ, His word, and His sacrifice. Trust in Him and Him alone....not what you feel, not what you fail at. He didn't save you because of your works or your "goodness." He did not save you because of what is or is not in you. He saved you because of what is in Him: love and truth.

:hug

[humblebleu]

Thank you all for the feedback...it was very helpful.:thumb

[jeffebornagain]

Forgive me, but my search-fu is terrible. I've done a few searches and havent found quite what I'm looking for.

My co-worker (pentecostal?) and my inlaws both believe that if you're saved, truly saved, and were to sin, then die immediately afterwards, no matter what the sin, you wont go to heaven, because you didnt have time to ask for forgiveness for the sin.. My heart tells me this isnt so. Doesnt this cheapen the gift??

I know a few verses that tell me otherwise, but they're so SET in their belief. How can you be assured of your salvation if you believe this way??!!

27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand

There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus... RIGHT? I'm not being argumentative with them, but I asked them to show me SCRIPTURE, where it says you can lose your SALVATION.

HELP!

/humble thanks and apologies for the weak search-fu.

[icebear]

My co-worker (pentecostal?) and my inlaws both believe that if you're saved, truly saved, and were to sin, then die immediately afterwards, no matter what the sin, you wont go to heaven, because you didnt have time to ask for forgiveness for the sin.. My heart tells me this isnt so. Doesnt this cheapen the gift??.


they are incorrect, you can't lose true salvation





if you do a tag search, i think there is an OSAS tag

[Not Perfect, But Forgiven]

Forgive me, but my search-fu is terrible. I've done a few searches and havent found quite what I'm looking for.

My co-worker (pentecostal?) and my inlaws both believe that if you're saved, truly saved, and were to sin, then die immediately afterwards, no matter what the sin, you wont go to heaven. My heart tells me this isnt so. I know a few verses that tell me otherwise, but they're so SET in their belief. How can you be assured of your salvation if you believe this way??!!

27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand

There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus... RIGHT? I'm not being argumentative with them, but I asked them to show me SCRIPTURE, where it says you can lose your SALVATION.

HELP!

/humble thanks and apologies for the weak search-fu.

Hello there. Yes, you are correct. Once you have confessed with your mouth to God that Jesus Christ is the Lord of your life, asked Him to come into your heart and repent (develope a negative view towards) of your sin: you are saved. There is nothing that can take it away from you, no sin, any time, anywhere. If you confess that sin to God, you will be forgiven of it. God's ability to forgive is greater than our ability to sin.

The ONLY sin in the bible which you cannot be forgiven for his blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. This is because Christ was raised from the dead by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the same force that will glorify our own bodies at the rapture. And, the Holy Spirit working through people is how the bible was written, and also how God talks to His children. Blasphemy against Him is the only sin no one can be forgiven for. It is a one way ticket to Hell. Other than that, everything you have, are, or will do that is sinful is forgiven when you give your life to Christ. Nothing can remove your name from God's Book of Life. You will be Raptured and you will go to Heaven if you die first. Just remember to strive to obey Christ and confess when you make a mistake.:thumb

[jeffebornagain]

Yeah, I get alot of the "The bible was written by man, and man took what he wanted out of it and used it accordingly" from other co-workers. They cant understand how I believe the bible is the inspired written word of God himself.

OSAS. I've re-searched and found the one link I found before..

The biggest thing for me is the scripture. If I have the written word backign me up, I'm golden. I just cant understand how someone can believe they can lose their salvation like that. So far, the response to my request for scripture from them is, "read the book of Romans, Ephesians, *insert book here*"

[Tio-Peregrino]

Hello there. Yes, you are correct. Once you have confessed with your mouth to God that Jesus Christ is the Lord of your life, asked Him to come into your heart and repent (develope a negative view towards) of your sin: you are saved. There is nothing that can take it away from you, no sin, any time, anywhere. If you confess that sin to God, you will be forgiven of it. God's ability to forgive is greater than our ability to sin.

The ONLY sin in the bible which you cannot be forgiven for his blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. This is because Christ was raised from the dead by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the same force that will glorify our own bodies at the rapture. And, the Holy Spirit working through people is how the bible was written, and also how God talks to His children. Blasphemy against Him is the only sin no one can be forgiven for. It is a one way ticket to Hell. Other than that, everything you have, are, or will do that is sinful is forgiven when you give your life to Christ. Nothing can remove your name from God's Book of Life. You will be Raptured and you will go to Heaven if you die first. Just remember to strive to obey Christ and confess when you make a mistake.:thumb

Even then...many people have blasphemed the Holy Spirit and come to faith. This is why I believe it's more probable that the "unforgivable sin" we read about in Matthew 12 is something that only that particular generation could have committed. It was "unforgivable" in that it set A.D. 70 in motion...many would be saved out of that generation, but Jerusalem and the Temple would be destroyed regardless of that salvation many would come to experience.

It's much like the sin at Kadesh Barnea that the Israelites committed before entering the Land. Many in that generation held to the faith, but they were not able to enter the Land...this was the consequence of that sin. Likewise, the destruction that happened in A.D. 70 was the consequence of the sin committed in Matthew 12.

Now we have the Holy Spirit...He came down in Acts 2. There is no Scriptural basis to a loss of salvation, especially for those who have the Spirit residing within them.

[PickensSlim]

There are quite a few people who believe that you can loose your salvation and some bible passages that support the notion if they are not studied well enough.
But the Lord is a good shepard and doesn't allow wolves to raven (taken unvoluntarily) or his sheep to wander (voluntarily leave).

What is really frightening is that some believe that if you die with unconfessed sin you will go to hell. What a horrible burden to carry!!! It would be easier to work your way into heaven. I can imagine many many situations where one could die with unconfessed sins. As a matter of fact, I probably have some now.

Slim

[Mike]

Forgive me, but my search-fu is terrible. I've done a few searches and havent found quite what I'm looking for.

My co-worker (pentecostal?) and my inlaws both believe that if you're saved, truly saved, and were to sin, then die immediately afterwards, no matter what the sin, you wont go to heaven, because you didnt have time to ask for forgiveness for the sin.. My heart tells me this isnt so. Doesnt this cheapen the gift??

I know a few verses that tell me otherwise, but they're so SET in their belief. How can you be assured of your salvation if you believe this way??!!

27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand

There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus... RIGHT? I'm not being argumentative with them, but I asked them to show me SCRIPTURE, where it says you can lose your SALVATION.

HELP!

/humble thanks and apologies for the weak search-fu.
That's a great verse and the gospel of John is full of great security verses. Try chapter six if you need more.