View Full Version : Once a Sheep Always a Sheep, or Salvation Deficit Disorder?
May 13th, 2008, 04:48 PM
OSAS. I've re-searched and found the one link I found before..
hmmm... sorry 'bout that, i figured more threads would be there by now :doh
we only recently got the tagging thing enabled, we're still working on it. maybe i'll spend part of tomorrow adding to it.
ok, back to the real point of this thread :wave
May 13th, 2008, 04:49 PM
It seems to me, that if one could lose their salvation, then one would also have to be able to earn their salvation. If we can earn our salvation, then there was/is no point in Jesus dying on the cross. God being God, we can logically deduce that there was/is a reason for Jesus to die on the cross. If the reason for Jesus dying on the cross was/is to be the blameless sacrifice for our sins, then we cannot earn our salvation. If we cannot earn our salvation, then we cannot lose our salvation... :yeah
There are a myriad of verses that support OSAS. One I enjoy particularly is as follows:
28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30I and my Father are one.
By these verses, it is clear that one who has accepted Christ as their personal Savior is in the Hand of God. If one is in the Hand of God and can get out, then God is not God.
Both logically and Biblically I believe we can be very sure of our position in the Hands of God Almighty... :yeah
In Christ... :hat
May 13th, 2008, 04:55 PM
Even then...many people have blasphemed the Holy Spirit and come to faith. This is why I believe it's more probable that the "unforgivable sin" we read about in Matthew 12 is something that only that particular generation could have committed. It was "unforgivable" in that it set A.D. 70 in motion...many would be saved out of that generation, but Jerusalem and the Temple would be destroyed regardless of that salvation many would come to experience.
It's much like the sin at Kadesh Barnea that the Israelites committed before entering the Land. Many in that generation held to the faith, but they were not able to enter the Land...this was the consequence of that sin. Likewise, the destruction that happened in A.D. 70 was the consequence of the sin committed in Matthew 12.
Now we have the Holy Spirit...He came down in Acts 2. There is no Scriptural basis to a loss of salvation, especially for those who have the Spirit residing within them.Good post.
May 13th, 2008, 05:39 PM
There are quite a few people who believe that you can loose your salvation and some bible passages that support the notion if they are not studied well enough.
But the Lord is a good shepard and doesn't allow wolves to raven (taken unvoluntarily) or his sheep to wander (voluntarily leave).
Perhaps you can share the Scripture that shows the Spirit leaving a person who "voluntarily" abandons the faith.
May 13th, 2008, 06:38 PM
If God is the sealer of the Holy Spirit within us, how can man remove God's seal?
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise Eph. 1:13
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. Eph. 4:3-
May 13th, 2008, 06:42 PM
I wonder then if Judas is in heaven?
May 13th, 2008, 06:47 PM
May 13th, 2008, 07:08 PM
I believe he was, nothing tells me he wasnt, and every other of the 12 were. He wasnt indwelt by satan until right before he betrayed Christ. Let me ask you If I truly get saved at 14, serve the lord with all my heart. Then decide to turn my back on him murder, rape, steal, and live life however I want , I still go to heaven? Come on something dosent sound wrong with that?
May 13th, 2008, 07:25 PM
Romans 8:29-38 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%208:38-39;&version=9;)
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. (Some of them? Looks like all of them to me. The Word is powerful and true. Soak this in. If you are redeemed, you will be redeemed. This is crystal clear.)
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. (Let that really, really sink in. He justifies. Can we unjustify? He makes intercession for us.)
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. (Isn't that beautiful?)
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
If this doesn't cover every possibility, I don't know what does.
May 13th, 2008, 07:32 PM
I believe he was, nothing tells me he wasnt, and every other of the 12 were.
Matthew 26:23-24 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2026:23-24%20;&version=9;)
23Jesus replied, "The one who has dipped his hand into the bowl with me will betray me. The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born."
Seems like the clincher to me. Our Lord knew this was coming, and knew there would be no repentance. Of course Judas could have repented, had not we known his fate according to the frightful "woe".
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