Once a Sheep Always a Sheep, or Salvation Deficit Disorder?

[tunce]

What could you possibly to to 'keep' it? No one deserves getting it in the first place.

How true. :)

[Zebbani]

What could you possibly to to 'keep' it? No one deserves getting it in the first place.

True true, and what a wonder it is when we reach the place where we truly can rest in our salvation. I've known people who, consciously or subconciously, feel they have to do the 'right' things or they fear they are not really saved. Coming from a Mormon background, it took me a while (and a lot of work on the Lord's part) to be able to completely rest and rejoice in the salvation He gives and He maintains.

Back to the OP, I believe all true Christians, backslidden or not, will be taken up in the rapture. We can't lose our salvation, only rewards. I also believe, however, that a good number of people who claim to be saved really aren't.

[JesusInMe]

I had an interesting bible study on this recently. It was based upon the first few chapters of Revelation when Christ is speaking about the 7 churches.

People's thoughts on that range that those churches correspond to periods of time in the church age (I disagree on that), or that they represent different types of churches (Possibly IMO). I was looking at it from the perspective of types believers--after all the church is the group of people, not the building or organization.

If we look at the format of all of the passages about the church, they are broken into 3 parts:


The qualification and things we are doing right
What we are doing wrong in God's sight
What the consequence is if we don't do what he tells us to do to remedy the situation


The only church that doesn't fit that description is Philadelphia--the "True" church. Notice also that it is the only church that Jesus promises a "door" that no man can close--a way of escape.

All of the other churches are given a trial or tribulation that they are encouraged to overcome.

I don't know the ramifications of this bible study....it is still a work in progress I guess. I do, however, still adhere to a pre-tribulational rapture of the church. I guess this just brings up the question of "what is the church".


Sounds like an interesting study, I have always believed that in this world we have true born again believers and unbelievers, saved and not saved, sheep and goats. I am open to hear what comes out of this study you are doing, please share.

[JesusInMe]

Yes;They will be raptured.They just won't receive the crown of Rightesous
which will be given to all thoes that look for His appearing.:wave


Ah yes, I forgot about that, thanks for the reminder.

[JesusInMe]

What could you possibly to to 'keep' it? No one deserves getting it in the first place.

Touche!!!!:)

[Hootmon]

Back to the OP, I believe all true Christians, backslidden or not, will be taken up in the rapture. We can't lose our salvation, only rewards. I also believe, however, that a good number of people who claim to be saved really aren't.Agreed.

[Tall Timbers]

http://www.bible.ca/ef/expository-1-corinthians-6-9-11(2).htm

I pulled this from the link above:

Contrary to what some folks would have you to believe, I know of very few preachers of the gospel who relish the thought of people missing heaven. "Fire and brimstone preachers" they call those who are faithful to the Scriptures and take the warnings therein seriously enough to mention them. Preachers and teachers of this sort are usually characterized as harsh and unloving. Certainly some of them are. But facts are facts and that the Word of God warns that certain types of behavior will cause people to be lost. And isn't it also possible that many of those sounding the warnings are doing so because of genuine concern for others? The liberal "do whatever you choose to do" crowd will deny it, but it is the truth.

It is in the spirit of concern and loyalty to the facts as God has caused them to be stated in His Word that this article is written. It is not intended to make anybody mad. The title suggests that not everybody is going to heaven. Already, we are being too "narrow-minded" for many people. But we shall go even further and get specific, but not any more specific than the Scriptures. So if you do not like some of the specifics, take your argument not to the source of this article, but to the source of the Scriptures upon which this article is based; our Creator.

THE SCRIPTURE'S TESTIMONY
"Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God." (I CORINTHIANS 6:9-11). The spiritual and moral environment of the first century city of Corinth was extremely unhealthy. Out of this culture, which had seen its prime and under the crushing weight of further moral decline would one day destroy itself, men and women answered the call of the gospel. They sought purpose for their lives; they sought a better way; they sought an eternal and abiding hope. They found it in Christ Jesus. Even if their city and culture would shortly lie in ruins, they would live forever.

THOSE WHO WILL FAIL TO ENTER THE KINGDOM OF GOD
"And nothing unclean and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it (the holy city, new Jerusalem - J.Q.), but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life." (REVELATION 21:27). Paul had given a list of things which, by the guidance of the Holy Spirit, he termed "unrighteous" and said that those who practice such things "shall not inherit the kingdom of God." But if one is engaged in such activity, all is not lost. There are steps to take to remedy the situation. We'll discuss that later.

According to I CORINTHIANS 6:9-11:
(1) Fornicators shall not inherit the kingdom of God. This term refers to those who engage in sexual activity which God has declared sinful. He has not declared all sexual activity. In fact, He condones and even encourages lawful sexual activity according to His design and purpose (I CORINTHIANS 7:2-4; HEBREWS 13:4). Fornication refers to sexual activity outside of the marriage relationship between a man and a woman. It would include premarital as well as extramarital sexual relationships of whatever duration from a one night stand to an ongoing affair. Such activity was rampant in first century Corinth. It is rampant today in our own society. But it matters not how commonly it is practiced, it is still unrighteous and it will keep one from entering heaven.
(2) Idolaters shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Those who offer to others what belongs unto God are idolaters. A person's idol might be a huge, grotesque image carved out of stone before which he bows. Or it might be his own desires. It is anything that a person adores more than God. Idolatry will keep one from entering heaven.
(3) Adulterers shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Adultery seems to be more specific a term than fornication. It is usually limited to sexual unfaithfulness to a marriage partner. Adultery will keep one from entering heaven.
(4) The effeminate shall not enter the kingdom of God. When we see this word, we think of a sissy. But the word goes beyond that. It refers to one who is soft, specifically, to the passive partner in a homosexual relationship. Being effeminate will keep one from entering heaven.
(5) Homosexuals shall not enter the kingdom of God. This word is used twice in the New Testament; in the text we are examining as well as I TIMOTHY 1:10. It denotes one who would take the leading role in a homosexual relationship. It is not fashionable today to suggest that such activity is unrighteous and will keep one out of the kingdom of God, but that is what the Covenant of Jesus Christ says. Practicing homosexuality will keep one from entering heaven.
(6) Thieves shall not enter the kingdom of God. There is no excuse for taking that which rightfully belongs to another. Whether its shoplifting, pilfering, short-changing or armed robbery, fraud and extortion, it is thievery. Whether the person doing the stealing is rich or poor it will still keep one from entering heaven.
(7). The covetous will not enter the kingdom of God. This has to do with having an uncontrollable desire to possess a certain thing. It motivates one into committing sin in order to satisfy greed. Coveting that which belongs to another will keep one from entering heaven.
(8) Drunkards shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Children of God have no need to cloud their perspectives nor dull their senses. We must be able to think and reason clearly. Drunkenness causes one to lose focus and rationality. Those who give themselves over to intoxication will find that it keeps them from entering heaven.
(9) Revilers shall not inherit the kingdom of God. There are many to speak boldly about things that they know little about. Many men and women of God have had to endure reproach for their faith. Not even the Son of God escaped verbal abuse. But they will not have to endure it forever because there will be no revilers in heaven.
(10) Swindlers shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Seducers and smooth talkers of all kinds are included here. The religious con-man belongs to this group as well as the secular. Those who prey on others by trying to take advantage of their misfortune would also be included. Swindlers cannot take their ill-gotten goods with them when they leave this world, nor will they enter heaven.

AND SUCH WERE SOME OF YOU
"And such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God." (I CORINTHIANS 6:11). The Christians at Corinth had been involved in these things before their conversions. During that time they had no hope at all of heaven. Also, any Christians returning to such practices would forfeit their eternal home with God.

But these things were now a part of the past. The disciples at Corinth had been washed, sanctified and justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. This happened when they obeyed the gospel from the heart.. This obedience involves those who have come to believe in Jesus repenting of their former conduct and being baptized in the name of Christ (ACTS 2:38). Thus they had been washed (baptized), sanctified (set apart from their old manner of life and dedicated to a new purpose) and justified (declared forgiven and made righteous by God's grace). God took people who were headed toward eternal destruction, and by His power and grace had altered their direction. He continues to do so today. Those who live according to His purpose shall inherit the kingdom of God.

By Jon W. Quinn
From Expository Files 1.2; February, 1994
________________________________________

I would expect that any of us who are practicing any of the activities (sins) that the Word says will keep us out of the Kingdom, that those of us who are practicing any of those sins will not be raptured but will have from now to our death to surrender ourselves to Christ. Of the multitudes who claim Christianity, I suspect that only a minority have surrendered to Him and are living according to His purpose. Many of the remainder will find themselves embracing the one world church when that day comes.

[Hootmon]

I would expect that any of us who are practicing any of the activities (sins) that the Word says will keep us out of the Kingdom, that those of us who are practicing any of those sins will not be raptured but will have from now to our death to surrender ourselves to Christ.I dont really disagree with any of that.

However, its important to note that the Greek word used for 'practice' (ergazomai) implies a long-term commitment, like a Doctor's medical practice.

So... A 'practice' is not merely something that you do occasionally, its a 'career'. When we submit to Christ our 'practice' becomes (or should become) to be more like He is...

[Rondaben]

Quick question...


Originally Posted by Zebbani
Back to the OP, I believe all true Christians, backslidden or not, will be taken up in the rapture. We can't lose our salvation, only rewards. I also believe, however, that a good number of people who claim to be saved really aren't.

The seven churches listed in Revelation Are essentially all Christian. Jesus himself professes his love for them. His judgements against them are not related to salvation--it appears that their salvation is secure. The judgements are related to a time of trial, tribulation or even great tribulation. The reward for these churches is contingent upon overcoming the tribulation/trial that will beset them.

Ephesus:

Remember and Repent, or I will come and take away your candlestick. If you overcome you will be given to eat of the tree of life

Smyrna

Imprisoned, Killed for the sake of Jesus. Overcome and Crown of life, no fear of the second death (lake of fire)

Pergamos

Repent or Jesus will fight against them with the sword of his mouth (physical death). Overcome and get hidden manna, stone with name on it (token that indicated posession/ownership by God)

Thyatira

Those adhering to the false teachings of Jezebel will be cast into the great tribulation unless they repent. Overcome and rewarded with power over the nations (the millenial reign) and the morning star

Sardis

Repent of of lack of works. Notice the interesting admonition in this set of verses. Jesus uses the same imagery of coming as a thief. Those who have not been defiled are taken with him. Those who have not repented are left. Those that are left and who overcome are also given raiment of white and are confessed before the Father and the angels and their name preserved in the book of life.

Philadelphia

Again unique amongst the churches listed. He has no admonishment for this church other than to hold on until he returns. Then he will set a door before them that man can neither open nor close.

Laodicea

Lukewarm church. Urged to buy silver refined in the fire (imagery used elsewhere to represent trial/tribulation) and white raiment (refer back to Sardis). If they overcome, they will sit with Jesus on his throne.

I need to do more research on this. There is an indication here that the pre-tribulational rapture may only apply to the "Philadelphia" type Christian whereas other christians will be refined by the trial of the tribulation. Note that the salvation of all of the Christian churches listed is not called into question--those that overcome are accepted and recieve rewards.

This may not be well received, but I'm trying to reconcile all of this. Comments appreciated!

[Westcoast7]

Looks like all those saved will go through the GT. Is it possible this pre-trib rapture being talked here has the timing wrong?