Once a Sheep Always a Sheep, or Salvation Deficit Disorder?

[ShannonWallace]

Praise God, I agree with you totaly. I also would like to point out
Revelation 21:7-8
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.


Can anybody tell me what that word means in the Greek or whatever original language, please? ( ! )


:panic

[Rondaben]

are we confusin sanctification and repentance here?| Maybe?|\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

I think it is common for Christians when talking about the rapture to confuse the issues of rapture and salvation.

Salvation is a finished work for believers in Christ. Revelations describes, apparently, that the condition of the relationship with Christ is the decider of a pre-tribulational rapture.

I don't know about how firmly I am believing all of this. I do, however, feel that we tend to be conditioned to expect that since we are saved we should be raptured. Jesus' standard is probably a bit higher than ours I would imagine.

[kgreen20]

Jesus' standard is impossibly high! It is so high that if we were to try to enter Heaven by our works, every one of us would go to Hell. Because Jesus' standard is sinless perfection. That standard is impossible to attain while we're in our mortal bodies.

That's why we need Jesus' blood to cover us. Because only by His blood can we be made acceptable in God's sight, and thus fit for Heaven. And the standard is the same whether it's entering Heaven in death or entering Heaven in the Rapture. If you would go to Heaven in death, you will go to Heaven in the Rapture. We cannot earn the right, only receive it as a gift through faith.

"Nothing in my hands I bring;
Simply to Thy cross I cling."

[acceptedintheBeloved]

Another thought on this subject is the fact that once we are saved, God no longer "identifies" us in such terms as are listed here. We are "justified" and looked upon by God as "just as if we had never sinned." He sees Christ's Righteousness, not our own (which is filthy, anyway.)

As Christians, we are no longer to be called (identified as) "idolaters", etc... (anything on this list) even if we sin by means of idolatry (after we are saved.) We WILL be "disciplined", however... just as the man in Corinth (1 Corinthians 5) who "had his father's wife" was disciplined (who, by the way, later repented, I believe. Which is the purpose of said "discipline.")
Who knows how long he sinned in this manner before being so disciplined (and repenting)... But the point is, God WILL discipline (often-times, through His Church, which is called to this task, for the believers' benefit.)

[Trust&Obey]

Posted by seekingtruth1
are we confusin sanctification and repentance here?| Maybe?|\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\


My post had specific scriptures for each heading.
Repentance is not sanctification.

Repent
I believe that true repentance is required for a salvation experience. This may be the point where many Christian experiences are lacking.

2 Corinthians 7:10 (NASB)
For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death.

(KJV)
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

Confession is not Sanctification

Confess & Believe

Romans 10:9
that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;


Salvation is not Sanctification

Salvation is a Gift
When salvation has occurred in a believer's heart, then in God's eyes your salvation is secure. You cannot earn your salvation or lose it.

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

My final point is that a true Christian may sin, but that doesn't mean they lose their salvation. I stand by that.

As a believer, you can however, still sin and earn God's displeasure. You now have the Holy Spirit living inside you, who will convict you of your sin. If you are living an unholy life - He will make it known to you and you will not be happy until you have repented of that sin to God and returned to a right relationship with Him. There is no peace for a believer living in sin.

True believers continue in the faith: they may fall down, take a side path, get beaten down by the enemy, but they find that narrow path and for the most part, they try to stay to it, following Jesus - they know His voice.


When Jesus comes for His Church, all Christians will be raptured. There will be many left behind that thought they were Christians. There will be many that will believe on Jesus during the tribulation and be martyred.

[Tall Timbers]

Salvation is a finished work for believers in Christ. Revelations describes, apparently, that the condition of the relationship with Christ is the decider of a pre-tribulational rapture.

If He raptures His church, which is what I believe the bible says will happen, then all true believers will be raptured. There will be plenty of people who identify themselves as Christians who are left behind because they never were true believers.

[kgreen20]

http://www.gracethrufaith.com/selah/parables/parable-of-the-ten-virgins


The Parable of the Ten Virgins
Selah » Parables


"At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. Five of them were foolish and five were wise. The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any oil with them. The wise, however, took oil in jars along with their lamps. The bridegroom was a long time in coming, and they all became drowsy and fell asleep.

"At midnight the cry rang out: 'Here's the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!'

"Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps. The foolish ones said to the wise, 'Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.' " 'No,' they replied, 'there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.'

"But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut.

"Later the others also came. 'Sir! Sir!' they said. 'Open the door for us!' "But he replied, 'I tell you the truth, I don't know you.'

"Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour (Matt. 25:1-13)


http://www.gracethrufaith.com/selah/prophecy/the-bride



The Bride
Selah » Prophecy

A Bible Study by Jack Kelley


There's an astonishing parallel between the relationship of the Messiah and His Church, and Jewish wedding customs. When we touched on this in The Parable of the Ten Virgins I was reminded that I've wanted to devote an entire article to the subject. Now seems like a good time, so here goes.

[MovingforJesus]

Revelation 21:8

[But the fearful] Deilois Those who, for fear of losing life or their property, either refused to receive the Christian religion, though convinced of its truth and importance; or, having received it, in times of persecution fell away, not being willing to risk their lives.

[And unbelieving] Those who resist against full evidence. And sinners, kai hamartoolois, is added here by about 30 excellent MSS., and is found in the Syriac, Arabic, some of the Slavonic, and in Andreas and Arethas. On this evidence Griesbach has admitted it into the text.

[The abominable] Ebdelugmenois Those who are polluted with unnatural lust.

[And murderers] Phoneusin Those who take away the life of man for any cause but the murder of another, and those who hate a brother in their heart.

[And whoremongers] Pornois Adulterers, fornicators, whores, prostitutes, and rakes of every description.

[Sorcerers] Pharmakois Persons who, by drugs, philtres, fumigations, etc., pretend to produce supernatural effects, chiefly by spiritual agency.

[Idolaters] Eidoololatrais Those who offer any kind of worship or religious reverence to anything but God. All image worshippers are idolaters in every sense of the word.

[And all liars] Kai pasin tois pseudesin Every one who speaks contrary to the truth when he knows the truth, and even he who speaks the truth with the intention to deceive; i.e. to persuade a person that a thing is different from what it really is, by telling only a part of the truth, or suppressing some circumstance which would have led the hearer to a different and to the true conclusion. All these shall have their portion, to meros, their share, what belongs to them, their right, in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone. This is the second death, from which there is no recovery.

So yes I believe there will be backsliders left behind. Do you know anyone that was on fire for God then turned back to what is listed above. I'm sure you do just as most of us do. Will they be left or go to hell? All I can go by it what God Himself has to say on this. And all I can do is pray and strive not to be left myself.
Your Sister In Christ

[Rae]

I believe that once you are saved, there is no way He can say, I never knew you. How can He save you and not know you?

Jesus died for my sins. Past, present, and future. He is coming for me and I am a going. If at the rapture, any of us were clean enough for Him, there would be no need to be changed. But as He says, in the twinkling of an eye, we will be changed. My point being, that is if any of us were good enough, we would not need to be changed.

I know that I fail Him daily and for that I am shamed. It grieves Him and me but my blessed hope is that when He comes for me, I will be exactly what He wants me to be because He is going to make me that way. I work to become more pleasing to Him but I know it will never be enough. I just trust that He has it all worked out.

[Trust&Obey]

Revelation 21:8 refers to unbelievers and unrepentant sinners who are not covered by the Blood of the Lamb and whose name is not written in the Lamb's book of Life.

You'd be hard-pressed to find any one who has never "lied".

Romans 3:23
"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."

Romans 6:23
"For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."
:hug