Once a Sheep Always a Sheep, or Salvation Deficit Disorder?

[LaMontre]

No. I wonder if you know what the whole of it implies and what it is referring to?

LOL! So are you asking me to explain my view here, or do you have something you'd like to say to me?? :gaah

[goinghome]

Doesn't really say it for me. Still too much to do with reward, something for me, and not enough about the possibility of losing out on son-ship, something for Father....the purpose for redemption. Gal 4.4-7.

Yet another twisty turn for this thread, but I think if you're going to bring this reference into the argument we then have to look at the rights of a servant throughout scripture, vs. the rights of sons, and not only sons but also adopted sons (as Christians are grafted in). I'm not one who knows where to go to scripture for everything off the top of my head, theologically I'm probably equivelant to about a 4th grader, learning, but I thought that an adopted son meant that no matter what you could never be disinherited. You actually have more "rights" to your inheritance as an adoptee than a full blooded son under the law. Adoption was taken way more seriously back then and the adoptive parents were making a statement about the absoluteness of their commitment. But whether we address this or not it still won't answer the question of sonship to satisfy our argument. I still see this whole thread as being about "when do you become a son?" At acceptance of salvation, or after sanctification and "finishing the race". My view is that we become sons of God at the point we accept Christ. And when are our names written in that book, at acceptance of Christ, or at the end of the race. Sorry if I'm dense, but the answer still seems obvious to me.

[Ormly]

Yet another twisty turn for this thread, but I think if you're going to bring this reference into the argument we then have to look at the rights of a servant throughout scripture, vs. the rights of sons, and not only sons but also adopted sons (as Christians are grafted in). I'm not one who knows where to go to scripture for everything off the top of my head, theologically I'm probably equivelant to about a 4th grader, learning, but I thought that an adopted son meant that no matter what you could never be disinherited. You actually have more "rights" to your inheritance as an adoptee than a full blooded son under the law. Adoption was taken way more seriously back then and the adoptive parents were making a statement about the absoluteness of their commitment. But whether we address this or not it still won't answer the question of sonship to satisfy our argument. I still see this whole thread as being about "when do you become a son?" At acceptance of salvation, or after sanctification and "finishing the race". My view is that we become sons of God at the point we accept Christ. And when are our names written in that book, at acceptance of Christ, or at the end of the race. Sorry if I'm dense, but the answer still seems obvious to me.


Before I go off into what could be a long dissertation, permit me this: When Jesus was born there is no question but that He, though as a baby, was the only begotten Son of the Father. Question: When did the Father first declare Him as such?

Can you make application to your life in this, declaring yourself to be "born again"?

[goinghome]

Before I go off into what could be a long dissertation, permit me this: When Jesus was born there is no question but that He, though as a baby, was the only begotten Son of the Father. Question: When did the Father first declare Him as such?

Can you make application to your life in this, declaring yourself to be "born again"?

Not exactly sure what you're asking for. But Jesus was the Son at and before creation (and obviously had no beginning, as He is God as well). Application to my life? If you're asking if I'm a born again spirit filled Christian, Yes. Why would you ask? and in such a bizarre way?

[Ormly]

Not exactly sure what you're asking for. But Jesus was the Son at and before creation (and obviously had no beginning, as He is God as well). Application to my life? If you're asking if I'm a born again spirit filled Christian, Yes. Why would you ask? and in such a bizarre way?

Lets make some distinctions that will cause some excitement, ok?

Jesus wasn't, except in mind/heart of the Father, until He was actually born. I say actually obviously because in the heart and mind of the Father He always was. That much we know, correct?

This spoken of the Christ of Heaven who was "unity" with flesh; Jesus, the man born of a virgin:

Hebrews 10:5 (KJV) 10: Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me

This same Jesus, the child with the divine nature of His Father, now had to be proven as Adam was purposed to be, a Son unto the Father. Are we Ok, so far?

[goinghome]

Lets make some distinctions that will cause some excitement, ok?

Jesus wasn't, except in mind/heart of the Father, until He was actually born. I say actually obviously because in the heart and mind of the Father He always was. That much we know, correct?

This spoken of the Christ of Heaven who was "unity" with flesh; Jesus, the man born of a virgin:

Hebrews 10:5 (KJV) 10: Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me

This same Jesus, the child with the divine nature of His Father, now had to be proven as Adam was purposed to be, a Son unto the Father. Are we Ok, so far?



Are you from Australia? The way you state things is different and difficult to follow. It almost sounds Jehovah's Witness like. You're creeping me out. I can't say I'm with you here. Jesus was always, as in Father Son & HS, if you're trying to say Jesus was a figment of God's imagination until He was born on earth, I'm definitely not with you.

[Ormly]

Are you from Australia? The way you state things is different and difficult to follow. It almost sounds Jehovah's Witness like. You're creeping me out. I can't say I'm with you here. Jesus was always, as in Father Son & HS, if you're trying to say Jesus was a figment of God's imagination until He was born on earth, I'm definitely not with you.


Then what was born of Mary, a figment of God's imagination? Can you believe for an instant the Christ of Heaven, the one by whom all things were created was God's Son?! Christ was never begotten. He always was. Jesus was the body in whom the Christ of Heaven would indwell for the purpose of redemption and ushering the Kingdom of God upon Earth.. This is not like the new birth experience necessary that Jesus, with Nicodemus , speaks of as being necessary for even seeing the Kingdom of God. It is also the same life of Christ deposited in the Discilples in John 20.22.


Study it out before slamming me.

[goinghome]

Then what was born of Mary, a figment of God's imagination? Can you believe for an instant the Christ of Heaven, the one by whom all things were created was God's Son?! Christ was never begotten. He always was. Jesus was the body in whom the Christ of Heaven would indwell for the purpose of redemption and ushering the Kingdom of God upon Earth.. This is not like the new birth experience necessary that Jesus, with Nicodemus , speaks of as being necessary for even seeing the Kingdom of God. It is also the same life of Christ deposited in the Discilples in John 20.22.


Study it out before slamming me.


Ummm, you're the one claiming Jesus was only in the Mind/Heart of the Father until He was born. I've been reading other threads you're on and re-reading this one. I'm sorry but I think you're a mole. Possibly a Jehovah's Witness. Everyone here has sufficiently refuted you on all of your biblical references and you keep arguing out of left field. and "Ushering the kingdom of God upon earth"???? I know where you're going with this. There's red flags going up, with sirens, loud ones, that you are not one that I should be interacting with. I'm sorry if I've misjudged and I mean you no harm. But you do not have sound theology and you're trying to make true believers doubt what they already know. Will be praying for you. Dusting my feet off now.

[LaMontre]

Lets make some distinctions that will cause some excitement, ok?

Jesus wasn't, except in mind/heart of the Father, until He was actually born. I say actually obviously because in the heart and mind of the Father He always was. That much we know, correct?

Um, no.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


This spoken of the Christ of Heaven who was "unity" with flesh; Jesus, the man born of a virgin:

Hebrews 10:5 (KJV) 10: Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me

This same Jesus, the child with the divine nature of His Father, now had to be proven as Adam was purposed to be, a Son unto the Father. Are we Ok, so far?

So Jesus was a man who became a god, does that about sum it up?? :tsk

[Ormly]

Um, no.

Um,Yes. This is part of where you are missin man. Flesh never made it into Heaven until Jesus was Glorified. Flesh would never have made it at all had it not been born.

Where did you park my quote from Hebrews?


Hebrews 10:5; 8-12 (KJV) Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: ............... Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;


[quote]Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


Who was the Word, Jesus or the Christ of Heaven? Who BECAME Flesh, Jesus or the Christ of Heaven? Who was the Son of man, Jesus. Who was the Son of God, Jesus... get this now, Jesus Christ in ACTUALITY was always Son of man-Son of God. However, When He said "It is finished" made Jesus, the Man, purely King of Kings in Human Flesh, the first of first fruits.

With that in mind, would you like to talk about "Joint-heir-ship"?


How bout them apples, goinghome, still think I'm a JW?

If you would read your Bible from God's perspective instead of your own you would spare your re-dedicator a lot of wear and tear.