Once a Sheep Always a Sheep, or Salvation Deficit Disorder?

[ihope]

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9

Sing...I LOVE that verse!!!!!

[savedatcamp]

I haven't read all these posts, but here is my take on a sinners prayer :idunno
I always start my prayers with thanking the good Lord for the gift of Salvation and I try to name any sins that I can remember committing in the past 24 hours or so. Not that I am asking for forgiveness as Jesus died to forgive any past, present or future sin when he was nailed on that Cross and shed his blood for all of us. I feel by naming these sins it keeps scar tissue basically from building up ....does that makes sense? I then go on to pray for those I love, the Nation and Leaders, the innocent and hurting, the troops and always pray for the Peace of Jerusalem. Also, to help me stay content with my life and circumstances. I try to keep things simple and I know it works for me.:wave
Blessings,
savedatcamp

[Wally]

OSAS BUMP for SOPO

[Eternally]

what is SOPO?

[flowers]

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but I believe that a guinine Christian absolutely can lose his/her salvation and end up in hell. The bible clearly says to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. I believe we are to have a healthy fear of the Lord (respect) and to not take lightly all that He did at the cross. If a believer is living in any kind of careless ongoing sin and does not turn away from it, then if he dies in his sin, yes, he goes to hell.

Look at the book of Acts. Ananias and Sapphira were believers. I'm sure they loved the Lord. But Satan tempted them to hold back part of the money that they got from the sale of their land, and then they lied to their fellow believers, trying to deceive them into thinking that they had given all to make themselves appear generous. God struck them dead on the spot! The bible says that, "The whole church and all the others who heard about these things were filled with fear."

I belong to a huge nondemonational church filled with many young on-fire believers. Or so it seems. Every 2 months or so our pastor addresses the sin of the church. Apparently there are MANY who do drugs, live together without marriage, and have affairs. He knows because he counsels them. Now, I believe that if a Christian is struggling with sin such as addiciton to drugs, I believe God helps him through it until victory is achieved. But, if that person gets set free and then goes back into it, it is like the bible says, "as a dog returns to his vomit, so does a sinner in his sin."

I believe God forgives repentant adulterers, like he did David. However, David committed this sin once that we know of, and he sincerely repented. There are "Christians" out there who have ongoing affairs with different people or maybe with one person for a long time while still being married. Unless this person repents quickly, he/she will end up in hell.

"Christians" who repeatly lie (even little, a lie is a lie, and ALL liars will have their part in the lake of fire. Jesus did not make a distinction between Christian and wicked, He said ALL); steal (long lunch breaks, repeated tardies for work, too much phone call time, yes, that is stealing employer's time); watching filth (even TV is filled with it), these are all sins. We are all guilty of sinning every day. Some recognize when they do and immediately confess it to God. Others make such a practice of these things over a long period of time that their consciences become seared and they no longer hear or feel God's nudging to make things right. And those of the opposite sex who are practicing house while unmarried, well, it is sin and they will go to hell, "Christian" or not unless they turn away from it and live by God's standards.

I get so sick of people who think because they said a simple sinner's prayer that they can live like the devil and think they can enter heaven's gates. God is so holy He cannot look at sin, much less live with people consumed with it. Some use the scripture, "Now there is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus." Hellloooo! That verse is for people IN CHRIST only, not for "Christians" living like the devil. It is my belief that "Christians" who live like this are walking a very dangerous line and are taking advantage of what Christ died to give us - life. When we repeatedly live in ongoing sin, it is like crucifying Him over and over again.

Living for God is very hard. Some give up their lives for the gospel. True Christians cannot live compromised lives, partaking of the devil's delacacies while stringing Jesus along, as if He is that extra insurance to gain eternal life. One either lives the straight and narrow for God as a Christian following their Father who is God, or he walks the wide path to destruction while following their father, Satan.

[LAURIEH]

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but I believe that a guinine Christian absolutely can lose his/her salvation and end up in hell. The bible clearly says to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. I believe we are to have a healthy fear of the Lord (respect) and to not take lightly all that He did at the cross. If a believer is living in any kind of careless ongoing sin and does not turn away from it, then if he dies in his sin, yes, he goes to hell.

Look at the book of Acts. Ananias and Sapphira were believers. I'm sure they loved the Lord. But Satan tempted them to hold back part of the money that they got from the sale of their land, and then they lied to their fellow believers, trying to deceive them into thinking that they had given all to make themselves appear generous. God struck them dead on the spot! The bible says that, "The whole church and all the others who heard about these things were filled with fear."
I belong to a huge nondemonational church filled with many young on-fire believers. Or so it seems. Every 2 months or so our pastor addresses the sin of the church. Apparently there are MANY who do drugs, live together without marriage, and have affairs. He knows because he counsels them. Now, I believe that if a Christian is struggling with sin such as addiciton to drugs, I believe God helps him through it until victory is achieved. But, if that person gets set free and then goes back into it, it is like the bible says, "as a dog returns to his vomit, so does a sinner in his sin."

I believe God forgives repentant adulterers, like he did David. However, David committed this sin once that we know of, and he sincerely repented. There are "Christians" out there who have ongoing affairs with different people or maybe with one person for a long time while still being married. Unless this person repents quickly, he/she will end up in hell.

"Christians" who repeatly lie (even little, a lie is a lie, and ALL liars will have their part in the lake of fire. Jesus did not make a distinction between Christian and wicked, He said ALL); steal (long lunch breaks, repeated tardies for work, too much phone call time, yes, that is stealing employer's time); watching filth (even TV is filled with it), these are all sins. We are all guilty of sinning every day. Some recognize when they do and immediately confess it to God. Others make such a practice of these things over a long period of time that their consciences become seared and they no longer hear or feel God's nudging to make things right. And those of the opposite sex who are practicing house while unmarried, well, it is sin and they will go to hell, "Christian" or not unless they turn away from it and live by God's standards.

I get so sick of people who think because they said a simple sinner's prayer that they can live like the devil and think they can enter heaven's gates. God is so holy He cannot look at sin, much less live with people consumed with it. Some use the scripture, "Now there is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus." Hellloooo! That verse is for people IN CHRIST only, not for "Christians" living like the devil. It is my belief that "Christians" who live like this are walking a very dangerous line and are taking advantage of what Christ died to give us - life. When we repeatedly live in ongoing sin, it is like crucifying Him over and over again.

Living for God is very hard. Some give up their lives for the gospel. True Christians cannot live compromised lives, partaking of the devil's delacacies while stringing Jesus along, as if He is that extra insurance to gain eternal life. One either lives the straight and narrow for God as a Christian following their Father who is God, or he walks the wide path to destruction while following their father, Satan.

People who live in continual sin lifestyles , in my opinion, were not ever truly saved. If one who was saved and became a new creation in Christ, then began to act like these examples you mentioned, I agree they would not be going to heaven. Our God is a Holy God and He isn't fooled.. He knows our hearts and our actions, like our words come from the heart.
In my opinion if Jesus is the Lord of your life it would be impossible to sin this way.
God bless

[AnotherOldGuy]

The bible clearly says to work out your salvation with fear and trembling.
Scripture most definitely does not say that! English translations may use those words, but that is not what Paul's greek intended. It is certainly one of the most misunderstood phrases in the bible.

To understand the meaning, it is best to read the whole book of Philippians and not just a snippet of one verse.


The verse in question:

(Phil 2:12) So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;

Two points:

Paul does not say "work for your salvation". He says "work out" - make use of.

Paul does not say "with fear and trembling". He says "in the midst of fear and trembling" (meta phobon and tromon).


If you read the whole book you see that Paul is encouraging them to mimic Jesus' and his actions. Even while being persecuted, they still did God's work. They didn't work to earn salvation - they worked because they HAD salvation.

(Phil 1:29) For to you it has been granted for Christ's sake, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake,

(Phil 1:30) experiencing the same conflict which you saw in me, and now hear to be in me.





Ananias and Sapphira were believers. I'm sure they loved the Lord. But Satan tempted them to hold back part of the money that they got from the sale of their land, and then they lied to their fellow believers, trying to deceive them into thinking that they had given all to make themselves appear generous. God struck them dead on the spot!
Scripture does not say that they lost their salvation. Physical "death" does not equal "eternal punishment".

Where do you see that Ananias and Sapphira were believers who loved the Lord? Scripture does not say that. Is it wise to base your doctrine on assumptions?




One either lives the straight and narrow for God as a Christian following their Father who is God, or he walks the wide path to destruction while following their father, Satan.
If their father is Satan, then they never had salvation to lose. Belonging to a church is not the same as salvation.

[In His Service]

Since when is Salvation ours to lose? It was a gift given to us from God and as He can give, He can surely take away. In Revelation there is mention of the Book of Life with names in it and the hope of John (the Revelator) was that Christ might not remove his name from it. Why would the bible state that Christ might not "blot out" John's name if it was not possible? Again, Really going back to grieving the Spirit - WE ARE NOT TO DO IT!

Yes. God is a Loving God, a Gracious God, but first and foremost, a JUST God. For if He were not just - Dealing with UNREPENTANT sin as it should be.... He would be a liar... That my brothers and sisters, He is not.

Romans 3:30-31
30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

I see this in Romans that Grace is not an excuse to go on breaking the law - sin.

Romans 6:20-23
20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.
21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death.
22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Also, Romans 6 clearly states that we are not to go on sinning b/c we are no longer slaves to sin but to Righteousness through Christ Jesus. We do not/should not desire the sinful nature, but rather detest it and seek repentance upon a stumble.

Now as to the nature of our slavehood to God:

The key is:

Galations 5:16-26

16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

If you are TRULY saved, you will not desire the things of the flesh and will choose willingly to turn from any sin - but also knowing that it was through the Grace of Christ's sacrifice, that you are saved.

Now as for the blotting out of our names from the Book of Life; Christ states this clearly as though HE has the power to take away our salvation for iniquity.

Rev 3:4-5
4 Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy.
5 He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.

Agape!

[Wally]

SOPO is a new member. I though this thread is a good one on OSAS theology so I bumped it.

[LindaLee]

I am one of those that use to not believe in OSAS because of all the stupid, idiotic things I have done in my life. But...God has in His wonderful beautiful omnipotent Spirit showed me where I was wrong.

OSAS is scriptural, alhough it doesn't say it word for word, you can rest assured that if you have truly repented and recieved God's Spirit, you are OSAS. Even if you sin again...which we all do.


Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Hebrews 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Hebrews 10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Hebrews 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
Hebrews 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
[B]Hebrews 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Hebrews 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
Hebrews 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
Hebrews 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
Hebrews 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
Hebrews 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Hebrews 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
There is absolutely no more of Christ's sacrifice to cover our sins, because He has already done so the day he died for us and when we turned our lives over to Him and repented of our sin, then His Blood covered us from all sin past, present and future. Our sins that we may still commit, are not even within His sight.

With the insight we are given wisdom and knowledge and freedom. But it also comes with Responsiblity to behave in a manner that edifies our soon Coming King!