Once a Sheep Always a Sheep, or Salvation Deficit Disorder?

[Mopsie]

My life is certainly not a perfectly sinless life. I mess up every day, probably more than the average "Christian." Sometimes I question my devotion to God. But you know what? He deals with me. Sometimes I'll go a few days with unforgiveness in my heart toward another or I have slips of the tongue or whatever it is. Eventually though I see my sin for what it is, I humbly go before the Father, and just honestly tell Him what is going on. I don't relish my sin! I would much rather live His way than my way. He knows my weaknesses. He knows I need His help to overcome. I've made a conscious decision that I will love and serve Him. That does not mean that I won't sin at all! I just won't consciously want to sin. Example, I've been married over 22 years, the last 10 have been tumultuous. I'm sure he has been unfaithful to me a few times (I don't have time to get into that). My heart has been broken many times and I've experienced the deepest loneliest that anyone can ever go through. BUT, no matter how bad it has been, one thing I have already decided in my heart, I will never have an affair with another. I know in my heart that is wrong, and I really would not want to insult God or my husband for that matter. But even if I did have a quick affair and realized the error of my way, I know God would forgive if I was truly repentant. However, if I did it continually and had a rebellious spirit over a long period of time, then of course I would be in danger of hell. Rebellion is like witchcraft, according to the bible.

Flowers, I don't know you and I'm not here to argue, okay? :hug

You and I are not much different other than my husband was addicted to porngraphy for well over 15 years which 11 of them were dating me and being married to me. I was tempted to have an affair because of how this affected our marriage and while I was not intimate with the other man I did lust for him. Sinned, you bet! I would say that I too seem to struggle more than others although, I wonder if we were able to pull appearances aside how much sin we'd find in those others who seem to have no issues.

What I feel the problem is, is that by saying we can lose our salvation, this takes away the hope and confidence I and others have. The problem with I have with saying once saved, always saved is not true is that it can take a person with depression or other problems going on and can actually encourage THEM to sin. Think about it, please. The opposite of OSAS is that you can lose your faith. That can easily say to someone else, "Hey, ya blew it - forget it man. You're hopeless and you just blew the whole salvation thing." That seems to be a HUGE evil becaue it takes away from the confidence we do have in Christ and ultimately God is not faithful.

OSAS for me says, "Hey, if you mess up you'd better repent but rest assured that when you do ask forgiveness, your salvation is not in jeopardy." It is not a license to sin.

God bless you, as I said, I am not here to argue but I know very well that I have not grieved the Holy Spirit and that my faith is eternally secure and NOTHING is going to change that, particularly because there are those here who are willingly to say, "You might want to be careful in regards to the teachings of some pastors and theologians out there who are watering down the gospel." I can't tell you how grateful I am because the Bible warns of aspostates. If they aren't pointed out, isn't it just as wrong because somewhere, someone IS going to listen to their teachings and be led down a path straight to hell. We are to be just as vigilant about teaching carefully ourselves as we are to protect others from receiving apostate teaching. I sure wouldn't want to be responsible for referring a potential believer to a teacher or teachings that would result in the same hell bound path.

[acceptedintheBeloved]

"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave Himself for me." Galatians 2:20

I can praise Him for that :) for He is FAITHFUL.

[Anddra]

OSAS applies only to those whom have been truly converted and only God can know the heart of that person who is professing their faith in Christ Jesus.
Those whom think they "might" have been saved or profess they are saved but don't live it, isn't saved!

Repentence brings changes in ones life...it is evidence of our committment to God. I believe in the OSAS IF you are TRULY BORN AGAIN!

I was raised in a Baptist, Assemblies of God, Freewill Baptist, WWCG, and a Non-Denomational.

:agree

OSAS is from the bible, not from a particular Christian denomination. To me the false professor is a bit like Luke 8:18, even what he seems to have shall be taken from him.

BTW, I am not a Baptist. I was raised in the Church of Scotland.

[BlessedAssurance]

I beg to differ with you about people not necessarily attacking other believers on this board, but they do attack pastors, evangelists, teachers.

Yes, because these are apostate teachings. And if you read carefully, our mods suggest we pray for the INDIDUAL'S enlightenment. Condemning a false teaching is quite different from attacking a false teacher.

I've been coming here for 2 years, although I just registered, and I see a lot of "righteous indignation," especially by the moderators. They are quick to judge what they call false teachers or imposters. While I personally believe that there are false teachers out there, I would not be so bold as to call them that. I pray for those whose teachings are contradictory and I'll call a religion false, but I'm not going to rip a pastor up verbally. IF THAT IS NOT JUDGING, TELL ME, WHAT IS??? David did not even have the audacity to accuse King Saul because he knew Saul was anointed. Your quote up above about your having love in your heart and showing me love, as you put it, who are you trying to persuade? You are fuming because I have an opinion that differs from yours. Seems to me you are the self righteous one!
I am sorry you think I am insincere. I am not in the habit of posting things I do not mean. In fact, I work very hard to choose every word so that I say exactly what I mean. I could now cry foul, as you've accused me of hypocrisy. But, I would rather we just pray that we come to an understanding in Christ. Soon, Flowers, we will stand together at His throne, and throw our crowns at His feet. :yeah

I really don't want to argue with anyone. I already believe what I believe no matter how many scriptures are put up. :scratch

I was just giving my honest opinion. I fear though for those of you who think that you can live in sin after a committment to the Lord Jesus and get into heaven.
[22] Do Not Judge In An Unrighteous Manner - Determining that someone is less of, or not truly a Christian because of a perceived lack of spiritual gifts, worship style, observance or non-observance of holidays, divorced or remarried, political affiliation, not voting for a specific candidate, experiencing various trials, or because someone who confesses they are saved by grace through faith * in Christ, isn't, is not judging righteously. All members are encouraged to examine and judge doctrine held by other members in light of Biblical truth, but their salvation is a matter to be judged by Christ. (John 7:24; Matthew 7:1-2; John 5:25-29, I Corinthians 4:5)

I believe in the above. I have stated before that I would like you to stop accusing board members of not being saved. By doing so you are elevating yourself to Christ's level. However, as I've indcated over and over, I believe that you and I will meet in Heaven. I base this on the above listed scripture. NOT MY OPINION, but on Christ's WORD.
Hey, there are homosexual churches out there! Do you think they'll inherit the Kingdom? What about those having sex before marriage? Adulterers? Liars? Cheaters?
:idunno I am not qualified to judge. If they have accepted Christ, then of course. If not, then no, sadly I will not meet them in Heaven. It grieves me more and more every day that people will die before they meet Jesus. It astounds me that people will REJECT Jesus.
My life is certainly not a perfectly sinless life.
Of course it isn't. For all have sinned and fallen short of the Lord. I mess up every day, probably more than the average "Christian." Sometimes I question my devotion to God. But you know what? He deals with me. Sometimes I'll go a few days with unforgiveness in my heart toward another or I have slips of the tongue or whatever it is. Eventually though I see my sin for what it is, I humbly go before the Father, and just honestly tell Him what is going on. I don't relish my sin! I would much rather live His way than my way. He knows my weaknesses. He knows I need His help to overcome. I've made a conscious decision that I will love and serve Him. That does not mean that I won't sin at all! I just won't consciously want to sin. Example, I've been married over 22 years, the last 10 have been tumultuous. I'm sure he has been unfaithful to me a few times (I don't have time to get into that). My heart has been broken many times and I've experienced the deepest loneliest that anyone can ever go through. BUT, no matter how bad it has been, one thing I have already decided in my heart, I will never have an affair with another. I know in my heart that is wrong, and I really would not want to insult God or my husband for that matter. But even if I did have a quick affair and realized the error of my way, I know God would forgive if I was truly repentant. However, if I did it continually and had a rebellious spirit over a long period of time, then of course I would be in danger of hell. Rebellion is like witchcraft, according to the bible.
My point exactly. Why do you assume that those on this board are any different? :scratch I've been all over this board, and never seen anyone reveling in sin. Have you?


Guess I'm just talking to myself cause I'm sure no one really cares about all this dribble. I honestly don't want to fight with anyone but will be careful about posting my honest opinions about anything anymore. I'm glad God made me for who I am, not a replica of other people.
I am sorry that you perceive my prayers for you to be insincere. I was taught to attack the argument, not the person. SO, I do not find your description of your personal pain to be 'drivel.' The beauty of this board is that we DO care for the pain of the members. I hope you've posted on the Prayer Request board. I spend some time there everyday, even if I don't post. There we learn about each other as individuals, not doctrine defenders.

Peace.:hug


Finally overall I am continuing this discussion for these reasons:
1. I want all new believers to realize that Christ's WORD means more than anyone's opinion.

2. The mods on this board are my brothers and sisters in Christ. I do not like them to be attacked for their care for us.

3. I value this board and its members highly. I refuse to allow anyone to attack them and damn them without defending my brothers and sisters in Christ.

Changing your mind will probably not happen. I will pray that the Holy Spirit continues his good works in your life. :pray However, please refrain from damning my family to Hell. They will meet me in Heaven at Christ's throne. As will you.

[acceptedintheBeloved]

"For if while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved [preserved] by HIS LIFE." Romans 5:10 NASB


"Hence, also, He is able to save FOREVER those who draw near to God through Him [Christ], since He always lives to make intercession for them." Hebrews 7:25 NASB


Our Lord is no wimp. :)

.

[HeIsEnough]

No one can come to hold this doctrine (OSAS) who goes by the Bible alone and in its entirety if they have studied the Bible carefully on Robinson Crusoe's Desert Island apart from the false Sirens of denominational teaching.

The Bible teaches the absolute eternal security of the believer, not the unbeliever.

Perhaps you're just not being clear here, but it sounds like your making two contradictory statements. Please clarify.



It IS possible to stop believing: Jesus said so in Luke 8:13,

The point is, those who lacked spiritual depth ("have no root")


You should ponder this a little more. Root is not in reference to "spiritual depth." It is a reference to Christ.

So, if someone is not in Christ, then they will fall away, for various reasons.

I'd rather not go any further into your post until you acknowledge and deal with the implications of this.

[HeIsEnough]

I beg to differ with you about people not necessarily attacking other believers on this board, but they do attack pastors, evangelists, teachers. I've been coming here for 2 years, although I just registered, and I see a lot of "righteous indignation," especially by the moderators. They are quick to judge what they call false teachers or imposters. While I personally believe that there are false teachers out there, I would not be so bold as to call them that. I pray for those whose teachings are contradictory and I'll call a religion false, but I'm not going to rip a pastor up verbally. IF THAT IS NOT JUDGING, TELL ME, WHAT IS??? David did not even have the audacity to accuse King Saul because he knew Saul was anointed. Your quote up above about your having love in your heart and showing me love, as you put it, who are you trying to persuade? You are fuming because I have an opinion that differs from yours. Seems to me you are the self righteous one!


[10] Treat others with dignity & respect (as you like being treated). No name calling, teasing, wisecracks, talking down to, or belittling members or the Moderation Team. No sowing discord in a joking or argumentative behavior in the spirit of dissension or the guise of 'just kidding', or off hand comments of how you have been treated by others. Rationally discuss the argument and do not attack our members or mods. Luke 6:31 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Luke+6%3A31)


I really don't want to argue with anyone. I already believe what I believe no matter how many scriptures are put up. I was just giving my honest opinion. I fear though for those of you who think that you can live in sin after a committment to the Lord Jesus and get into heaven. Hey, there are homosexual churches out there! Do you think they'll inherit the Kingdom? What about those having sex before marriage? Adulterers? Liars? Cheaters?

I fear your judgment about posters here is clouding your thinking. You're clearly are not in charge of who gets saved, and no one here either advocates what you're judging anyone over, or even lives like you are accusing. Stop with the judgment.



My life is certainly not a perfectly sinless life. I mess up every day, probably more than the average "Christian." Sometimes I question my devotion to God. But you know what? He deals with me. Sometimes I'll go a few days with unforgiveness in my heart toward another or I have slips of the tongue or whatever it is. Eventually though I see my sin for what it is, I humbly go before the Father, and just honestly tell Him what is going on. I don't relish my sin! I would much rather live His way than my way. He knows my weaknesses. He knows I need His help to overcome. I've made a conscious decision that I will love and serve Him. That does not mean that I won't sin at all! I just won't consciously want to sin. Example, I've been married over 22 years, the last 10 have been tumultuous. I'm sure he has been unfaithful to me a few times (I don't have time to get into that). My heart has been broken many times and I've experienced the deepest loneliest that anyone can ever go through. BUT, no matter how bad it has been, one thing I have already decided in my heart, I will never have an affair with another. I know in my heart that is wrong, and I really would not want to insult God or my husband for that matter. But even if I did have a quick affair and realized the error of my way, I know God would forgive if I was truly repentant. However, if I did it continually and had a rebellious spirit over a long period of time, then of course I would be in danger of hell. Rebellion is like witchcraft, according to the bible.

Guess I'm just talking to myself cause I'm sure no one really cares about all this dribble. I honestly don't want to fight with anyone but will be careful about posting my honest opinions about anything anymore. I'm glad God made me for who I am, not a replica of other people.

Peace.:hug

Whether you realize it or not, many believers go through what you go through.

This subject should be as "dry" as you can make it, remove your experiences and your perceptions about people and it will help when dealing with doctrine. You already know, or at least you should, that those who have sin must go to the Lord on a daily, minute by minute basis, if need be. You claim you do this, allow others to tell you they do this as well.

[HeIsEnough]

Changing your mind will probably not happen.

flowers,

One of the most amazing things on this board is to discover the depth of knowledge that posters have...if we cannot see that, we miss a blessing to learn and grow.

[BlessedAssurance]

Originally Posted by BlessedAssurance
Changing your mind will probably not happen.


One of the most amazing things on this board is to discover the depth of knowledge that posters have...if we cannot see that, we miss a blessing to learn and grow.

I'm sorry I don't understand the rebuke. I was simply saying that if Scripture was not going to change the mind of Flowers, nothing I could write would either.

I have tried to acknowledge constantly how much I have learned here. :scratch

[HeIsEnough]

I'm sorry I don't understand the rebuke. I was simply saying that if Scripture was not going to change the mind of Flowers, nothing I could write would either.

I have tried to acknowledge constantly how much I have learned here. :scratch

You took that wrong, sorry. Probably I wasn't very clear though...:nod

I was referring to how flowers can learn from many wise posters like you and Mopsie as two examples, thats all. :hug