Once a Sheep Always a Sheep, or Salvation Deficit Disorder?

[1angel4u]

Perfect explanation jgreen! :hat

Here are a couple other verses:

John 6:38-40
38For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

John 10:27-30
27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[a]; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. 30I and the Father are one."

Rom. 8:38-39
38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[a] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Rest assured, Kvat3r :hug

[DigReal]

Just went to Excel and played with a spreadsheet....

Assuming, 350 million in the USA
Assuming, 20% at or under the age of accountability
Assuming, 15% believe per Romans 10:9

That would produce numbers like.....

70,000,000 below the age of accountability being raptured
52,500,000 Adults being raptured.

A total of 122,500,000 or 35% of the population.

Not sure what, if anything, this says except quantifies the sad state of our national spiritual state.

Just noticed something interesting from Caver's numbers. We all know the expression "of Biblical proportions". Meaning bigger than natural. Well, "tribulation proportions" are even bigger than Biblical proportions. That is, 1/4 to 1/3 of the world for some events! Thanks to the children, the rapture will be of "tribulation proportions". Perhaps even the biggest? Yet another reason for me to wonder if the rapture will kick off the trib. :scratch

[Chris]

Just noticed something interesting from Caver's numbers. We all know the expression "of Biblical proportions". Meaning bigger than natural. Well, "tribulation proportions" are even bigger than Biblical proportions. That is, 1/4 to 1/3 of the world for some events! Thanks to the children, the rapture will be of "tribulation proportions". Perhaps even the biggest? Yet another reason for me to wonder if the rapture will kick off the trib. :scratch

The signing of the covenant kicks off the 70th week. The rapture will happen before the covenant. :)

[heybales219]

I like Jack Kelley's take on it....



If the Doctrine of Eternal Security is so clear then why all the disagreement about it? I’ve found two reasons. The first is the two-sided nature of our relationship with the Lord. One side is called Union and is Eternal and Unconditional, based only on our belief. Ephesians 1:13-14 describes our Union with God, sealed and guaranteed. Once we’re born again, we can’t become unborn. It’s good forever. The Holy Spirit is sealed within us from our first moment of belief until the day of redemption.

The other side is called Fellowship and it’s a bit more complicated. Fellowship is that state of continual closeness to God that enables Him to bless us in our daily lives, by making things happen for us and protecting us from attack. It’s like He’s teamed up with us to give us a supernatural advantage. Fellowship is defined by 1 John 1:8-9 as being both Earthly and conditional upon our behavior. Even as believers, as long as we’re here on Earth we’ll continue to sin. Since God can’t abide in the presence of sin, our unconfessed sins interrupt our Earthly relationship with Him and may deprive us of blessings we might have otherwise received. We’re still saved in the eternal sense, but out of Fellowship here on Earth.

When we’re out of Fellowship, we’re legitimate targets for our enemy’s mischief, just like Job was. His sin was self-righteousness and because he wouldn’t confess it, God had to let Satan afflict him in order to bring him to his senses. For a New Testament illustration, look at the parable of the Prodigal Son. (Luke 15:11-32) Like the younger son, we’ll still belong to our Father’s family, but won’t receive any of its blessings while we’re out of Fellowship. And like both Job and the Prodigal, when we return to our Father and confess our sins, we’re immediately purified from all unrighteousness and restored to Fellowship.

http://gracethrufaith.com/selah/eternal-security/osas-the-whole-story/

[MovingforJesus]

Sorry, but I go on the Bible on this one.


Revelation 21:8
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Romans 6:17-20
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.

This is NOT a free past to sin. We all fall short but we HAVE to yield our life to righteousness. I know lots believe we get a free past, but I would rather be wrong on this and try to live my life repenting daily then be right and live my life as would please the body.

[Biblenuggetlady]

Sorry, but I go on the Bible on this one.


Revelation 21:8
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Romans 6:17-20
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.

This is NOT a free past to sin. We all fall short but we HAVE to yield our life to righteousness. I know lots believe we get a free past, but I would rather be wrong on this and try to live my life repenting daily then be right and live my life as would please the body.


Being forgiven, does not give one a free pass. No one is saying that you can "continue in sin". There is not ONE person who can NOT sin. We pick up our cross daily, it's called sanctification. When you repent, and turn from your sinful lifestyle and live for Christ, it is a continual process that we go thru, as we strive to live a Holy life. But, to believe you do not sin, is false.

[Surafel]

Ahh, yes...for a time I was afraid that I would slip up and Jesus wouldnt take me. But, as soon as you sin, realize it and come back to Jesus. I know it is impossible to go day by day without sinning. Sigh, sometimes it feels hopeless as it slowly eats away at me from the inside...

[Robert]

True.

I believe there is truth in both sides of this :

Once we are saved, we are washed by the blood of Christ, and sealed by the Holy Spirit. It cannot be undone; our security is eternal. However, this does NOT give us the so-called "free-pass to sin" as some might think.

You see, it is all a matter of your heart. God know it, and he know our motive and reasons. A Christian who is struggling, but keeps getting back up is one thing. God knows that we are human, and fallable. As long as we come to him and honestly confess our sins, he will forgive us.

But a "christian" who lives a depraved life, full of themselves and thinking that rattling off a few words without meaning it, and then goes their merry way is no more saved than a chilli dog! This is one who just wants 'fire insurance", and pays only lip service to God.

These views aren't in opposition, but they are two sides of the same coin. We are saved, but only when we truly seek Christ and belive he died for our sisn on the cross. We may backslide, but that is different than the one who despies the spirit of grace. A person who uses it as a free pass is demonstrating that they don't love God because of their calculating way of using that grace. Real Christians will seek God's forgiveness when they sin, and the spirit will convict them on it. False ones don't have the spirit, so they live like its' no big deal.

I too, repent every day of my sins and die daily to my self, but I also know that when (not if) I sin, God is waiting to forgive me. It's in not coming to him that would be the big insult.

So, I agree with you both, heybale219 and MovingforJesus. It's a relationship, and like all relationships, we need to be constantly working on it. We'll never get it right in this life, but God know that. The important thing is that we never take God for granted.

[NewWine06]

True.

I believe there is truth in both sides of this :

Once we are saved, we are washed by the blood of Christ, and sealed by the Holy Spirit. It cannot be undone; our security is eternal. However, this does NOT give us the so-called "free-pass to sin" as some might think.

You see, it is all a matter of your heart. God know it, and he know our motive and reasons. A Christian who is struggling, but keeps getting back up is one thing. God knows that we are human, and fallible. As long as we come to him and honestly confess our sins, he will forgive us.

But a "Christian" who lives a depraved life, full of themselves and thinking that rattling off a few words without meaning it, and then goes their merry way is no more saved than a chilli dog! This is one who just wants 'fire insurance", and pays only lip service to God.

These views aren't in opposition, but they are two sides of the same coin. We are saved, but only when we truly seek Christ and believe he died for our sins on the cross. We may backslide, but that is different than the one who despise the spirit of grace. A person who uses it as a free pass is demonstrating that they don't love God because of their calculating way of using that grace. Real Christians will seek God's forgiveness when they sin, and the spirit will convict them on it. False ones don't have the spirit, so they live like its' no big deal.

I too, repent every day of my sins and die daily to my self, but I also know that when (not if) I sin, God is waiting to forgive me. It's in not coming to him that would be the big insult.



I agree, I continue to sin (regretfully both un-intentionally and sometimes willfully, like a stubborn child that insists on getting his hand burnt (repeatedly!) on a hot stove even after having been told not to touch it and given a detailed explanation of what will happen if I do)

I do however, not enjoy or savor my sins, big or "small" in the way I did in the past. I now am almost immediately convicted of them to the point that any little pleasure I get from them is nearly negated by the sense of remorse I feel and I run back to God, sorry I took my eyes off him.

I am a saved child of God, bought and paid for with the blood of Jesus Christ himself; When I was delivered from alcoholism back in '06 (hence my name) I made up my mind to live my life like a child of God as much as my flesh is able to..the alternative is to just give myself wholly over to my sin, spurning God's forgiveness, dying in my unrepentant state and being forever separated from him by my own choice.

The Lord gives each of us that choice, but,there is no middle road for me anymore. Whenever I stumble I will always return to him and ask him to mold my heart and actions to his liking.

More so than leaving the sinful world behind I look forward to leaving my sinful self, with all it's intolerance, rebellious nature and worldly interests behind to become the man that God destined me to become. :)

[Kvat3r]

Ok...I am using this as an example....Say I love the Lord, and I am struggling with a drug problem...I am heavily convicted about it, yet I continue to do it. And Lord comes....Will he leave me on the earth to face the tribullation on earth, so I can purify my heart. Or will he take me in the rapture?
I may be completely wrong, and I know that the Lord judges the heart, and only he knows what is within your heart...but I kind of am leaning toward the going through the tribulation period. I am still saved and will still make it to heaven...but it doesnt mean I will not experience some kind of judgment...am I wrong? I very well may be.