View Full Version : Once a Sheep Always a Sheep, or Salvation Deficit Disorder?
October 13th, 2008, 01:21 PM
Has anyone ever really contemplated why Abraham stopped at ten? I think he knew lot was righteous and look at how the angels phrase waht they said:
Lot + Wife 2, sons 2 total now 4, sons in law 2 which means they had 2 of his daughters 2 total now is 8 and the 2 daughters who had no husbands 2 for a total of ten.
I know this is only a conjecture but Abraham probably thought they were all righteous because Lot was.
The two sons were obviously sodomites because they didn't leave
The daughters who were married were probably corrupted by the men they were married to who were sodomites too.
Because Abraham would have kept counting down had he knew that was the outcome because he was totally unaware they would remove the righteous and thought for sure they would spare the city because he knew they would find ten righteous.
If he had continued his arguement they may have spared it ( going lower in numbers )
Also there is a point to be made when we think someone is righteous God illuminates the situation to show otherwise ( and we like Abraham may think higher numbers, but in truth they are far less than we thought) God Bless!
October 13th, 2008, 03:50 PM
I'm pretty sure every one of us on this Board has had such doubts at one time or another. I know I have. It's human nature (which Satan uses to his full advantage). And, yes, it's sometimes hard to fathom that God would continue to allow a sinner such as myself -- especially one who "falls off the wagon" sin-wise with disturbing frequency -- to be admitted into paradise with Him. But that's why the whole gift of salvation is so wonderful. We don't have to be perfect to be welcome in paradise. We just have to know Christ. (I once imagined the humorous analogy of an ultra-swank nightclub with bouncers in front to discourage any "riff-raff" from entering, and then the nightclub owner's son (Christ) shows up, points to me and tells them, "He's with me.")
October 13th, 2008, 03:54 PM
I have, as long as I can remember, believed in God, Jesus as His Son and my Savior, and the Holy Spirit - the Trinity.
I believe completely and without question that there is one God, that He sent Jesus to die for our sins, that Jesus rose from the dead and ascended to Heaven where has been since that time.
I believe I am a sinner, and that Christ covered my sins on the cross, that I am forgiven for things I have done, said and thought. That all I have to do is ask for that forgiveness and it is given.
I have asked Jesus into my heart and tried to live as God's Word directs us to. I also admit that I have failed at that more than once.
All that is 1000% true, and yet still I wonder if I am good enough. What if there is some part of me that doubts? Sometimes I feel like another part of my mind says: "But what if you're wrong? What if Jesus and God aren't real? Oh, you're not REALLY saved. When the Rapture happens you'll be left behind."
And I worry about that sometimes. Sometimes I feel like I'm on the right track and that when Jesus comes back for us I'll be going on up with others. Other times I think there's no way. :ohno
I've had multiple dreams about the Rapture. In every one of them I go halfway up and then suddenly I am back on Earth. :ohno Is this my subconscious putting my fears into my dreams? Is God trying to tell me something? Is Satan playing with me? (You KWIM I assume).
I worry about my family and friends. What if they're not really saved? I have friends who are Jewish that I love so much. I worry about our pets. We have 3 cats that are like our children. I don't want them left here to suffer, to wonder where we are. :ohno I have asked God if in His mercy he can Rapture our cats too. I'm sorry if that's stupid, but we love them.
These are all things that cross my mind. I don't doubt that the Rapture and the Tribulation are close at hand. I think they're exceedingly close. And I worry about things like this, and I don't know how to deal with it all.
You'll be ok!
October 13th, 2008, 04:57 PM
Ok...I am using this as an example....Say I love the Lord, and I am struggling with a drug problem...I am heavily convicted about it, yet I continue to do it. And Lord comes....Will he leave me on the earth to face the tribullation on earth, so I can purify my heart. Or will he take me in the rapture?
I may be completely wrong, and I know that the Lord judges the heart, and only he knows what is within your heart...but I kind of am leaning toward the going through the tribulation period. I am still saved and will still make it to heaven...but it doesnt mean I will not experience some kind of judgment...am I wrong? I very well may be.
Kvat;If you have Humbly come to our Lord and confessed and Belive in your heart that he is the Son of God and died for your sins(past,present & future) and you turn your life over to him,then your name is forever written in the Lambs book of Life.In my case,He has taken me through some deep valleys using my sins to bring me out the other side with a Stronger Faith than I had.Remenber the key word here is THROUGH".Read Psalms 23 and see what I mean.
See you in the Rapture.:yeah:yeah:yeah
October 13th, 2008, 10:19 PM
When you say "If we are set free from being slaves to sin", it sounds like you're skeptical.
It is the difference in direction. One leads to holiness, the other leads to death, or basically no direction change.
I think the scriptures make it clear that through the power of God, we can demonstrate this to be true. So I think it means that often times we take our eyes off of the Lord, the one who sanctifies us. The problem isn't God or His word, it is us.
I was kind of being rhetorical but also not because the freedom of sin is somewhat paradoxical. We are free from sin but we really aren't until death.
I like the line from Amazing Grace where John Newton the ex-slave traitor cries out , "Though I have lost my memory, two things I know. I am a great sinner and Christ is a great savior. "
October 13th, 2008, 10:38 PM
I think you guys problem with the slave analogy is because of our perception of slavery historically. Think of it this way: Being a slave of Jesus means we belong to Him. He redeemed (bought) us with His precious blood on Calvary. He is the best slave owner ever!!!
October 13th, 2008, 10:38 PM
Considering the rapture is not judgement day, why do we assume all children will go in the rapture ? As an example, all Children did not go into the ark with Noah. Just a thought - would love to hear responses.
October 13th, 2008, 10:40 PM
Because those that were above the age of reason were already corrupted by the vile times. Those that were below the age of reason would go to heaven.
October 13th, 2008, 11:00 PM
Ok...I have a question. I am a born again Christian...I have Jesus 100% completely in my heart. And my question with the rapture is this...
Since I have become a Christian I have had a couple of relapses, and when those relapses happened I felt so convicted I could hardly stand to be in my skin. But what if...I had another relapse (not to say that I will) but if I did and Jesus came back that very day....would he take me..even though I was willfully sinning against him?
I kinda wonder sometimes. It's just a question so I hope no one attacks me. Couldnt it be a possibility that some Christians will be left behind to face the tribulation to get there hearts right with the Lord. In the book of Revelations Jesus is talking to the churches....He is telling each one what is wrong with it, and there is only one church that doesnt have anything held against it. He says if the others dont repent.....there would be severe trouble to face. I dont know, it just kinda makes me wonder.
I think the problem is in understanding what about us is saved.
Justification by the blood of Jesus alone is the only thing that can possibly get us into heaven.
Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
And it's only the soul that is justified. Not the flesh. No flesh will enter heaven. You are thinking the whole man (or woman) is saved.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
The inward man is what is washed, made clean, and sealed. That's why outward baptism of the flesh cannot possibly profit us towards salvation. It's the inner baptism of the soul, by the Holy Spirit, that redeems us (our souls) and makes us (our souls) worthy of heaven.
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 3:16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
But, of course all that is not to say that we are free to sin as we (believers in eternal security) are often accused of.
Read Romans 6.
October 14th, 2008, 09:22 AM
Jesus said that following Him may require losing family, your own parents or children, due to your faith, and He said if you are not willing to do that, you are not worthy of Him.
This is not true. He says that you cannot be a Disciple, He doesn't say that you cant be a Believer. There is a drastic difference between a disciple and a believer. Look at what Jesus did for the possessed man that lived in the Graveyard in Gerasenes. He cast the demon "Legion" out of him and asked if he could follow Jesus into the boat......he was basically asking Jesus if he could be his disciple. Jesus told him no, but should go and tell his family what God had done for him and the mercy He showed him. Why is that? Because Jesus probably knew that he was not fit to be a disciple, for whatever His reasons.
I would say that there not not very many TRUE disciples these days.....I am definitely not one of them. We have lost the true definition of discipleship and have made it to mean "learning more about Jesus". It's sooo much more than that. I wish I had what it takes to be a true disciple of Jesus.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.0 Copyright © 2013 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.