Once a Sheep Always a Sheep, or Salvation Deficit Disorder?

[Kvat3r]

Whatever it is, I know that I'm +1

O, funny story about that............

My family and I went to a large park this past weekend. My grandparents decided to sit on a park bench in the front of the park. My parents went walking down a trail. The bench that my grandparents were sitting at was in the middle of an open field; no trails or trees for 75 yrds on either side of the bench.

My wife and I walked about 100 yrds from where my grandparents were sitting and were admiring a statue. When my wife turned around, she noticed that there was a pile of clothes where my Grandmother was sitting. My wife tugged my shirt and asked where my grandmother was. It was kinda freeky considering my grandmother isnt very mobile and couldnt have gotten far. My wife then said, "O no, we were left behind." She was semi-not really-quasi-serious. The thought passed through my head for a second and we started scanning the horizon for my grandmother. Couldn't find her. For a good 10 seconds, we were pretty shocked. Then, I spotted her in the shade by a tree. She had gotten hot and removed several layers of clothes that she was wearing and decided to walk.

My wife and I laughed about it afterward, but it made me think of how quick everything could change.

Hehe, that's a cute story....:lol2 That is true..things can change in a blink of an eye...hopefully sooner than later!

[Mopsie]

Because we still have sin natures. We won't be free of those till we're free of our mortal bodies.

:gaah Sure makes ya long for the rapture, doesn't it? That sure will be sweet!

:yeah

[Kvat3r]

Kvat;If you have Humbly come to our Lord and confessed and Belive in your heart that he is the Son of God and died for your sins(past,present & future) and you turn your life over to him,then your name is forever written in the Lambs book of Life.In my case,He has taken me through some deep valleys using my sins to bring me out the other side with a Stronger Faith than I had.Remenber the key word here is THROUGH".Read Psalms 23 and see what I mean.

See you in the Rapture.:yeah:yeah:yeah

Hopefully it's soon! I want to go home!

[KeepWatching]

Revelation 21:7-8
He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

This is talking about loss of rewards, not loss of eternal salvation.

Here are some great classes by Dr. Robert Dean discussing these things. Each class is about an hour long:



Revelation series - class 045b - Inheriting the Kingdom

Video: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4092693422542379057&q=source:012542284738367320358&hl=en

To download the free mp3 audio, go here and right-click on Revelation-045b :
http://deanbible.org/andromeda.php?q=f&f=%2FAudio+Files%2F2004+-+Revelation




Revelation series - class 064b - Overcomer or Overcome?

Video: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4888675731941667940&q=source:012542284738367320358&hl=en

To download the free mp3 audio, go here and right-click on Revelation-064b :
http://deanbible.org/andromeda.php?q=f&f=%2FAudio+Files%2F2004+-+Revelation



About Dr. Robert Dean: http://www.westhoustonbiblechurch.org/pastor-dean.htm

[HisPLHRN]

Very cute! It'll probably take him a while - it took my husband 4 MONTHS to notice something new on me....

[Mopsie]

:madgrin I ask him every once in a while, "Were you on the forum today?" We'll just have to see how long it takes...I will have to bridle my tongue and not ask.

:tape It sure is gonna be hard though. :D

[HeIsEnough]

I was kind of being rhetorical but also not because the freedom of sin is somewhat paradoxical. We are free from sin but we really aren't until death.

Or....

The man in chains does not know he is in chains, he is a slave to the only thing he knows, sin.

Whereas the man set free from chains knows he is no longer in chains...perhaps still inside the prison walls, but not in chains. Even if he tries to put the chains back on and sit in his old seat, they can never clasp what He has undone, and he will eventually get back up from his seat.



I like the line from Amazing Grace where John Newton the ex-slave traitor cries out , "Though I have lost my memory, two things I know. I am a great sinner and Christ is a great savior. "

I like it too..

[seekingtruth1]

I think that is referring to thosw who are unrepentant and therefore not saved....I dont read it as if you fall in these specific areas you lose your salvation but I know there are some who read it that way and think if you are involved in these specific sins you will lose your salvation but I dont see how that interp. makes sense in light of the NT....

[Biblenuggetlady]

Revelation 21:7-8
He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

This is talking about loss of rewards, not loss of eternal salvation.

Here are some great classes by Dr. Robert Dean discussing these things. Each class is about an hour long:



Revelation series - class 045b - Inheriting the Kingdom

Video: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4092693422542379057&q=source:012542284738367320358&hl=en

To download the free mp3 audio, go here and right-click on Revelation-045b :
http://deanbible.org/andromeda.php?q=f&f=%2FAudio+Files%2F2004+-+Revelation




Revelation series - class 064b - Overcomer or Overcome?

Video: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4888675731941667940&q=source:012542284738367320358&hl=en

To download the free mp3 audio, go here and right-click on Revelation-064b :
http://deanbible.org/andromeda.php?q=f&f=%2FAudio+Files%2F2004+-+Revelation



About Dr. Robert Dean: http://www.westhoustonbiblechurch.org/pastor-dean.htm

It is true believers will lose rewards, and not salvation...but Rev. 21 verse you noted, shows that unbelievers reward is eternal damnation and being cast into the Lake of Fire.

Not sure I am understanding what you are trying to say here. :scratch

[voiceoftruth]

I agree with Biblenuggetlady 100%, those who are true believers can not nor will not loose there salvation. What they do loose is there rewards, as you have shown. Please note for those who believe otherwise.


Salvation is trusting or believing in, by faith, that Jesus Christ paid for your sins with His blood on the cross of Calvary.
"He that BELIEVETH on the Son hath everlasting life:. . ." John 3:36
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever BELIEVETH in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16
The Bible makes it clear that OUR WORKS has nothing whatsoever to do with our salvation.
We don't receive it by our works - and we don't keep it by our works!
" NOT BY WORKS of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us,. . ." Titus 3:5
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast." Ephesians 2:8,9
Salvation is the free gift of God. If we had to work to keep it - it would not be a free gift - and God would be a liar!
". . . the GIFT of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 6:23
". . .by the righteousness of one THE FREE GIFT came upon all men unto justification of life." Romans 5:18
Salvation is not enduring or a process, but an event in time. Salvation is a NEW BIRTH. Just as your first birth happened on a certain time and day, so does the second birth.
"(For he saith, I have heard thee in a TIME accepted, and in THE DAY OF SALVATION have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted TIME; behold, now is THE DAY OF SALVATION.)" 2 Corinthians 6:2
"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be BORN AGAIN, he cannot see the kingdom of God." John 3:3
"Being BORN AGAIN, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." 1 Peter 1:23
Once you are born again SPIRITUALLY - you become a child of God.
"Beloved, NOW are we the SONS OF GOD, . . ." 1 John 3:2
"For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of ADOPTION, whereby we cry, Abba, FATHER." Romans 8:15

Just as nothing can "negate" your physical birth, nothing can "negate" your spiritual birth.
My children will always be my children. We may have troubled times. Our fellowship may be broken, but our relationship can never be broken. They will always be my children. Nothing or nobody can change that! And once you are born again spiritually - God becomes your Father - nothing or nobody can change that! Your fellowship may be broken, but your relationship can never be broken!
"For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, SHALL BE ABLE TO SEPARATE US from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 8:38
"My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand." John 10:29
Jesus promised He will never leave us. Jesus could not say this if there was even a chance of losing our salvation.
". . .for he hath said, I WILL NEVER LEAVE THEE, nor forsake thee." Hebrews 13:5
". . . and, lo, I am with you ALWAY, even unto the end of the world. Amen." Matthew 28:20
When the Bible speaks of possessing eternal life, it speaks in the present tense (hath, have, etc.) - SOMETHING WE ALREADY HAVE! If we had to work or endure to keep our salvation, this could not be true.
"He that believeth on the Son HATH EVERLASTING LIFE:.. ." John 3:36
"These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that YE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE,. . ." 1 John 5:13
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, HATH EVERLASTING LIFE,. . ." John 5:24
". . . him that cometh to me I WILL IN NO WISE CAST OUT." John 6:37
"And ye are COMPLETE IN HIM, which is the head of all principality and power:" Colossians 2:10

We are "perfected for ever" by Jesus Christ. How could the Lord say such a bold statement if we had to earn or keep our salvation?
"By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ ONCE FOR ALL. . . For by one offering he hath PERFECTED FOR EVER them that are sanctified." Hebrews 10:10,14
"Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and PRESERVED IN JESUS CHRIST, and called:" Jude 1
"And THE LORD. . . WILL PRESERVE ME unto his heavenly kingdom:. . ." 2 Timothy 4:18
"Who are KEPT BY THE POWER OF GOD through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." 1 Peter 1:5
"Now unto him that is able TO KEEP YOU from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy," Jude 24
"Wherefore he is able also to save them to the UTTERMOST that come unto God by him,. . ." Hebrews 7:25
"And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby YE ARE SEALED unto the day of redemption." Ephesians 4:30
". . .after that ye believed, YE WERE SEALED with that holy Spirit of promise," Ephesians 1:13
What about the "backslider" or somebody that forsakes the Lord? The Bible says he will suffer loss (rewards, etc.) - but he himself shall be saved!
"For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: BUT HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED; yet so as by fire." 1 Corinthians 3:11-15
"For we are MEMBERS OF HIS BODY, of his flesh, and of his bones." Ephesians 5:30
"Now ye are the BODY OF CHRIST, and members in particular." 1 Corinthians 12:18

Our salvation is so secure - even if we BELIEVE NOT after we're saved, because we become part of Him (the body of Christ), ". . .yet he abideth faithful: HE CANNOT DENY HIMSELF."
"If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: HE CANNOT DENY HIMSELF." 2 Timothy 2:13
1 Corinthians 5 reports of an awful sin in the church. And even though Paul commands ". . . To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh" - Paul still speaks of that person being saved - ". . .that the spirit MAY BE SAVED. . ."
"It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. . .To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit MAY BE SAVED in the day of the Lord Jesus." 1 Corinthians 5:1,5


To lose your salvation - makes God a LIAR!


With all the PROMISES from God to KEEP you, to SAVE you, to PRESERVE you - to even suggest you could lose your salvation - is to call God a LIAR!
". . .he that BELIEVETH NOT GOD hath made him a LIAR; . . ." 1 John 5:10

I hope this would clear up any misunderstanding that some may have on this subject. If you have been taught that you can loose your salvation, you have been taught wrong & so false teaching. The verses I have shown above should show you that fact.

God Bless you all
VoT