Once a Sheep Always a Sheep, or Salvation Deficit Disorder?

[theroc]

Was the new/everlasting covenant not made in the yr that Jesus paid the price on the cross? So that is when the covenant was established.
Jewish believers as well as gentiles who are grafted into that covenant do get a new heart and His spirit in He does place His laws in our mind. It is called regeneration. Notice every time in the text it states the new covenant GOd will make with His people and then it talks about regeneration (which happeneds in acts 2) and then it talks about the restoration of Israel

[readytogo_2]

in a jewish parrable there is only one main point. the prodigal son isnt about someone falling away from the faith and then coming back, it is about being so filthy in sin yet God being there to welcome you once you humble yourself. Its very important to not look at a parrable and break it down to many points, when there is only one big point of the story.
Plus you have the other txts supporting not being able to fall away


Galatians 4:6-7 6Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, "Abba, Father." 7So you are no longer a slave, but a son; and since you are a son, God has made you also an heir.

Scripture is clear that, as believers, God has become our Father. In the parable of the prodigal son, the son is living in his father's house. He has all of his needs met, but he decides to go somewhere else because he thinks things will be better elsewhere. After an undetermined period of time he comes back to his father's house. And the father welcomes him with open arms!

If I understand you, however, you are saying that unbelievers are currently living in the father's house? This is the only way that they could "come back" to the father's house when they realize the filth that they are living in.
It makes more sense to see the prodigal son as someone who "walked with the Lord" and then walked away only to come back later when they saw the error of their thinking. In your scenario, the unbeliever is adopted with open arms into the family, while the one that was the originally a member of the family would be turned away! While this can (and does) happen in human families, we are talking about the family of God. The words "backsliding" and "backslidden" are not in the Bible, but the concept is there in the parable. (The word "cat" doesn't appear in the Bible either, but that doesn't mean that cats don't exist. By your definition, cats would be unscriptural!)

[HeIsEnough]

Was the new/everlasting covenant not made in the yr that Jesus paid the price on the cross? So that is when the covenant was established.
Jewish believers as well as gentiles who are grafted into that covenant do get a new heart and His spirit in He does place His laws in our mind. It is called regeneration. Notice every time in the text it states the new covenant GOd will make with His people and then it talks about regeneration (which happeneds in acts 2) and then it talks about the restoration of Israel

Do you believe in RT, theroc?

This prophecy takes place in the Millennial Kingdom. That is when it will be fulfilled with Israel. (as a nation) As I said, this directly refutes your amill/covenant buddies who say Israel is done in God's plan. To simply say all this scripture happened in circa 33 AD, is willfully ignoring what it says.

Since it takes place in the Millennial Kingdom, you're prepared to say this is the same regeneration? You have no way of knowing that, but I could give you several reasons why anyone 'regenerated' by Christ when He is standing in front of them would be different, not to mention the consequences of turning away from Christ during the MK.

The New Covenant was made at the cross, but that doesn't mean we muddle the subtleties. That is what Replacement Theology does, it takes the differences and ignores them. Then they end up with goofy eschatology because it is not based upon truth. They will never actually find the truth about it because they ignore the distinctions.

[fracturedInfinity]

I think backsliding is the result of grieving and quenching the Holy Spirit, of which habitual sin is the result. We are clearly able to do this as believers, otherwise Paul wouldn't have told us not to do those things.

Isaiah 63:10
But they rebelled
and grieved his Holy Spirit;
therefore he turned to be their enemy,
and himself fought against them.

Ephesians 4:30
And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

1 Thessalonians 5:19
Do not quench the Spirit.

[TomSki]

If it were not part of the Christian life, Paul would not have written, "Brothers, if a man be overtaken in a fault, you which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering yourself, lest you also be tempted." (Galatians 6:1)

[heart_changed99]

As someone who has gone the full course of backsliding, I say, yea, Christians can backslide. I am sure there are many here, who are members on Rapture Ready, that can share their backsliding experiences with you. From there, you could pretty much gather that it is most absolutely possible for a believer to backslide.

2 Peter 2:20-21

For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.

Now, this scripture is not in full context, but I think it is clear what it is saying. Brothers and sisters, lets be careful and realize that a Christian can backslide. Otherwise, pride will set in and I am afraid that the untangling of this knot can take years. Don't assume you are above any and all sin. We are only able to overcome because of our strength through Jesus Christ. We are just flesh and bones, weak and damned without the deliverance of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ!

[Wally]

Backsliding is a concept: thoughtlessly or even willfully sinning for a period of time(unspecified).

It is a process God uses in many of us to clense and purify. For it is the law that convicts me and conviences me of the utter sinfulness of my acts. By this I see my sin and am able to confess it. There is also the battle with the old flesh. It is a daily battle, or a lifelong thorn to remind me of what I am and that all my righteousness resides in Christ. By the Law and by works there is no salvation. By grace and the blood shed for me there is eternal hope and a promise.

I believe in Jesus the Son of God. Born of a virgin, witnessed by many, crucified dead and buried. Rose on the Third Day. Acended to Heaven and released The Holy Spirit to dwell within me. Who will continue His work in me until death or rapture. There is no other, Only Jesus.


James 3:2
For we all stumble in many things. If anyone does not stumble in word, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle the whole body.

Matthew 26:31
Then Jesus said to them, “All of you will be made to stumble because of Me this night, for it is written: ‘ I will strike the Shepherd,And the sheep of the flock will be scattered.’

1 John 1:8
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


1 John 2:1
My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

[fracturedInfinity]

2 Peter 2:20-21

For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.

As I read this, something occurred to me. Please tell me if I'm wrong.

This was always a hard one for me because it seems like it's saying you'd be better off to have never been saved than to be saved and fall away. Or even that it was saying that a person could lose their salvation (which I know can't happen, but I couldn't explain what else this verse meant).

Reading it just now, I think God gave me understanding. We know that once a person's saved, they can gain rewards in Heaven. I think what this verse is actually talking about is loss of rewards. If you are saved and you never fall away (backslide) you'll never lose any rewards. However, if you do fall back into your sin, then you are losing rewards, in which case you'll have it worse than when you first trust in Jesus, because of the disappointment you'll have cause God and the regret over the lost rewards from Him.

[SoundingtheAlarm]

James 5:19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul[a] from death and cover a multitude of sins.

[Kliska]

As Wally rightly points out the idea of "backsliding" is a man-made label and it means different things to different people. If you take the word picture of "backsliding;" a person climbing a steep hill with great effort, and as they climb they sometimes slip backward for either a short length or a long one, very bloody and painful, or light scratches, yet are still trying to hold to the dirt by their fingernails...then yes, I believe every Christian has "backslid" at one point or another...or actually, we continue to do so every day...and sometimes we just cling to the rock not moving at all whilst being battered by a storm (what? Do I sound like I have first-hand experience? :heh)

There is a difference between that type of backsliding, or turning and completely running down the hill with no intent to go back, or never trying to climb the right hill in the first place. To me "backsliding" is a different question than OSAS, or the ability to lose our salvation.

I also think HIE is pointing out very salient facts; you must look at scripture in context, and to take it out of that context can lead to bad interpretation.