View Full Version : Once a Sheep Always a Sheep, or Salvation Deficit Disorder?
December 18th, 2008, 08:47 PM
Judas wasnt saved i spent time on this subject awhile back n few months back i was reading in john in the lord led me write to it, ill get the verse for you
December 18th, 2008, 09:29 PM
I believe he was, nothing tells me he wasnt, and every other of the 12 were. He wasnt indwelt by satan until right before he betrayed Christ. Let me ask you If I truly get saved at 14, serve the lord with all my heart. Then decide to turn my back on him murder, rape, steal, and live life however I want , I still go to heaven? Come on something dosent sound wrong with that?
Sorry, but I don't believe you were "TRULY" saved. This is just my take based on what I have studied and read in the Bible. If you are truly saved you would live for our father and the desire to murder, rape, steal, and live life however you want, would not be present in your soul! I am not saying all the answers are wrong. I have been taught in Churches both ways. I can see both sides and often confused when this topic is discussed.
December 18th, 2008, 09:32 PM
I don't think Judas was saved. He made the choice to follow the wrong way. Peter denied Christ 3 times, but made the right choice based on his love for Christ and Christ's love for him! I think that is the difference.
December 20th, 2008, 07:54 AM
God used this verse to reinforce my belief in OSAS:
Rev 13:8 "...whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the FOUNDATION of the world."
It got me to thinking, based loosely, I guess, on some things I read from Khouse.
We know that Jesus died at a certain point "in time" - around 2,000 years ago. So how could He have been "slain from the foundation of the world"?
The only conclusion I arrived at was that because Christ is the Son of God, His sacrifice on the Cross was so very, very, very sufficient, glorious, that redemption "extended" into eternity past. If it extended into eternity past, then it must literally encompass eternity future. He has unlimited authority - omnipotence!
When I first read that verse in Rev 13 many years ago, I couldn't comprehend how that could've been. But, I chose to believe by faith and just kinda filed it away. Then I "connected the dots", like I said, probably reading Chuck Missler. :idunno
Here are a several verses that I found when I searched on this concordance the word "FOUNDATION": http://cgi.godsview.com/cgi-bin/rcdenig/pdverse.pl?file=12825&occ=29
1) our names were written in the "book of life of the Lamb" before the FOUNDATION of the world.
2) He chose us "before the FOUNDATION of the world."
Wonderful study! We didn't even exist and yet we were chosen before the world was created! There are no words that can adequately describe my wonder at such an absolute truth! "Amazing grace" comes close!
I look forward to talking to Jesus about this one day. I hope He'll show me what it was like, how He knew me before creation. I want to know what it was like before "time". It must be because this salvation that we know is eternal in every possible way. All because of our Lord. Literally "all in all":
22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth ALL IN ALL.
Our admiration for Him continues to grow by leaps and bounds, doesn't it?!
2 THESSALONIANS 1
10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be ADMIRED in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
What a wonderful day that'll be! (maybe today?)
saved by Grace
December 20th, 2008, 01:11 PM
I wonder then if Judas is in heaven?
there is reference when Jesus said he lost nobody but the one who was bound to be lost.it is in the book of John.he also declared his desiples clean except one and also called Judas a devil many times in reference to Judas himself.it also says he did not believe.all this in the book of John.
saved by Grace
December 20th, 2008, 01:34 PM
here is some passages from the book of John concerning Judas.
60 Many of his disciples said, “This is very hard to understand. How can anyone accept it?”
61 Jesus was aware that his disciples were complaining, so he said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 Then what will you think if you see the Son of Man ascend to heaven again? 63 The Spirit alone gives eternal life. Human effort accomplishes nothing. And the very words I have spoken to you are spirit and life. 64 But some of you do not believe me.” (For Jesus knew from the beginning which ones didn’t believe, and he knew who would betray him.) 65 Then he said, “That is why I said that people can’t come to me unless the Father gives them to me.”
66 At this point many of his disciples turned away and deserted him. 67 Then Jesus turned to the Twelve and asked, “Are you also going to leave?”
68 Simon Peter replied, “Lord, to whom would we go? You have the words that give eternal life. 69 We believe, and we know you are the Holy One of God.[j]”
70 Then Jesus said, “I chose the twelve of you, but one is a devil.” 71 He was speaking of Judas, son of Simon Iscariot, one of the Twelve, who would later betray him.
Before the Passover celebration, Jesus knew that his hour had come to leave this world and return to his Father. He had loved his disciples during his ministry on earth, and now he loved them to the very end.[a] 2 It was time for supper, and the devil had already prompted Judas,[b] son of Simon Iscariot, to betray Jesus. 3 Jesus knew that the Father had given him authority over everything and that he had come from God and would return to God. 4 So he got up from the table, took off his robe, wrapped a towel around his waist, 5 and poured water into a basin. Then he began to wash the disciples’ feet, drying them with the towel he had around him.
6 When Jesus came to Simon Peter, Peter said to him, “Lord, are you going to wash my feet?”
7 Jesus replied, “You don’t understand now what I am doing, but someday you will.”
8 “No,” Peter protested, “you will never ever wash my feet!”
Jesus replied, “Unless I wash you, you won’t belong to me.”
9 Simon Peter exclaimed, “Then wash my hands and head as well, Lord, not just my feet!”
10 Jesus replied, “A person who has bathed all over does not need to wash, except for the feet,[c] to be entirely clean. And you disciples are clean, but not all of you.” 11 For Jesus knew who would betray him. That is what he meant when he said, “Not all of you are clean.”there is many more in the book of John that might come to mind later.John is probably my favorite book in the Bible.it tells of the Deity of Jesus.thank you Lord for such a wonderful book about you.
December 22nd, 2008, 05:00 PM
Pardon the naiive question, and I hope this is the right forum for this:
Is being saved by accepting Jesus, and importantly, repenting of one's sins a once done, its forever, like new wine in new wineskins, or is it a temprary state, where one can fall back to damnation?
One Christian theology I've encountered believes its just a transitory state, where if one falls out of it, they will suffer damnation just as the person who never accepted Christ in the first place.
Another Christian denomination states that once saved, always saved.
I feel confused. :/
December 22nd, 2008, 05:05 PM
no, great question. :hug
I am a newbie too - and this is a HUGE question I have - just haven't had the time to word it "juuuuuuuuuust right" like you did!
Let's hear it kids, what is the verdict on this one? :scratch
December 22nd, 2008, 05:22 PM
i like the angle this article has on OSAS (once saved always saved)
December 22nd, 2008, 06:57 PM
Icebear, thank you so very much for sharing that link. God Bless You!!!
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