Once a Sheep Always a Sheep, or Salvation Deficit Disorder?

[Gabby]

Again, I would like to ask for some respect. Just because we have different views doesn't mean one is right and another is wrong, another is divinely sanctioned, another is not. Calling people a heretic is a serious offense, and I am offended to be labeled so. Let me remind you of the rules of this forum:

[10] Treat others with dignity & respect (as you like being treated). No name calling, teasing, wisecracks, talking down to, or belittling members or the Moderation Team. No sowing discord in a joking or argumentative behavior in the spirit of dissension or the guise of 'just kidding', or off hand comments of how you have been treated by others. Rationally discuss the argument and do not attack our members or mods. Luke 6:31

I do appreciate your reciting the rules...however, I must remind you of another one:


Article VII. SALVATION ONLY THROUGH FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST ALONE

Owing to universal death through sin, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless born again; and that no degree of reformation however great, no attainments in morality however high, no culture however attractive, no baptism or other ordinance however administered, can help the sinner to take even one step toward heaven; but a new nature imparted from above, a new life implanted by the Holy Spirit through the Word, is absolutely essential to salvation, and only those thus saved are sons of God. Our redemption has been accomplished solely by the blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, who was made to be sin and was made a curse for us, dying in our room and stead; and that no repentance, no feeling, no faith, no good resolutions, no sincere efforts, no submission to the rules and regulations of any church, nor all the churches that have existed since the days of the Apostles can add in the very least degree to the value of the blood, or to the merit of the finished work wrought for us by Him who united in His person true and proper deity with perfect and sinless humanity (Lev. 17:11; Isa. 64:6; Matt. 26:28; John 3:7–18; Rom. 5:6–9; 2 Cor. 5:21; Gal. 3:13; 6:15; Eph. 1:7; Phil. 3:4–9; Titus 3:5; James 1:18; 1 Pet. 1:18–19, 23).

The new birth of the believer comes only through faith in Jesus Christ and that repentance is a vital part of believing, and is in no way, in itself, a separate and independent condition of salvation; nor are any other acts, such as confession, baptism, prayer, or faithful service, to be added to believing as a condition of salvation (John 1:12; 3:16, 18, 36; 5:24; 6:29; Acts 13:39; 16:31; Rom. 1:16–17; 3:22, 26; 4:5; 10:4; Gal. 3:22).

I believe you may well be violating our rules by insisting that the SOTM is synonymous with the cross. Not sure, but I'm betting the mods will make an appearance shortly.

[KaiafromBergen]

Again, I would like to ask for some respect. Just because we have different views doesn't mean one is right and another is wrong, another is divinely sanctioned, another is not. Calling people a heretic is a serious charge, and I am offended to be labeled so. Let me remind you of the rules of this forum:

[10] Treat others with dignity & respect (as you like being treated). No name calling, teasing, wisecracks, talking down to, or belittling members or the Moderation Team. No sowing discord in a joking or argumentative behavior in the spirit of dissension or the guise of 'just kidding', or off hand comments of how you have been treated by others. Rationally discuss the argument and do not attack our members or mods. Luke 6:31

I did not call you a heretic, I said what you are saying is heresy. Until you can prove to me via the Bible where the Sermon on the Mount and the Gospel are the same thing, I will continue to state what you say is heresy.

[iGospel 5]

I did not call you a heretic, I said what you are saying is heresy. Until you can prove to me via the Bible where the Sermon on the Mount and the Gospel are the same thing, I will continue to state what you say is heresy.

Now, I know I won't be able to convince you even if I use scripture! You will find some way to mitigate it. But here are some verses, John 15:18-27

18If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

19If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

20Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

21But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.

22If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin.

23He that hateth me hateth my Father also.

24If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.

25But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.

26But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

27And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

It is clear hear that it is Christ's message that removes the cloak of sin around us and gives us power to accept his redeeming grace, to be washed in his freely given blood, and to live lives that are redeemed. It is also clear that this is the reason why he was killed.


I do appreciate your reciting the rules...however, I must remind you of another one:



I believe you may well be violating our rules by insisting that the SOTM is synonymous with the cross. Not sure, but I'm betting the mods will make an appearance shortly.

I would say I'm not violating those rules, for I too believe that we are saved only through the redeeming blood of Christ. I just happen to nuance that statement a bit more.

[lisa]

iGospel5, the entire Bible is God-breathed, not just a portion of it.

Article I. THE SCRIPTURES

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and the whole Bible is inspired in the sense that holy men of God were moved by the Holy Spirit to write the very words of Scripture. This divine inspiration extends equally and fully to all parts of the writings ”historical, poetical, doctrinal, and prophetical”. The whole Bible is without error. All Scriptures center about the Lord Jesus Christ in His person and work in His first and second coming, and no portion, even of the Old Testament, is properly read, or understood, until it leads to Him. All the Scriptures were designed for practical instruction (Mark 12:26, 36; 13:11; Luke 24:27, 44; John 5:39; Acts 1:16; 17:23; 18:28; 26:22-23; 28:23; Rom. 15:4; 1 Cor. 2:13; 10:11; 2 Tim. 3:16; 2 Pet. 1:21).

[KaiafromBergen]

Now, I know I won't be able to convince you even if I use scripture! You will find some way to mitigate it. But here are some verses, John 15:18-27

18If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

19If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

20Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

21But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.

22If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin.

23He that hateth me hateth my Father also.

24If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.

25But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.

26But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

27And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

It is clear hear that it is Christ's message that removes the cloak of sin around us and gives us power to accept his redeeming grace, to be washed in his freely given blood, and to live lives that are redeemed. It is also clear that this is the reason why he was killed.

That was not my question . . .

[iGospel 5]

iGospel5, the entire Bible is God-breathed, not just a portion of it.

Article I. THE SCRIPTURES

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and the whole Bible is inspired in the sense that holy men of God were moved by the Holy Spirit to write the very words of Scripture. This divine inspiration extends equally and fully to all parts of the writings ”historical, poetical, doctrinal, and prophetical”. The whole Bible is without error. All Scriptures center about the Lord Jesus Christ in His person and work in His first and second coming, and no portion, even of the Old Testament, is properly read, or understood, until it leads to Him. All the Scriptures were designed for practical instruction (Mark 12:26, 36; 13:11; Luke 24:27, 44; John 5:39; Acts 1:16; 17:23; 18:28; 26:22-23; 28:23; Rom. 15:4; 1 Cor. 2:13; 10:11; 2 Tim. 3:16; 2 Pet. 1:21).

Thanks for moving it Lisa! From what I've seen you do a good job as moderator here.

I do take the Scriptures as a whole. And I do believe in the infallibility, along with the equally inspired aspects of the Word of God. I am justing saying that I don't draw from Paul as much as other people, I'm not saying that Paul isn't as equally as inspired as the Gospels. But since we are called to be disciples of Christ, to me this means that the Gospels are the absolute guideline for the Christian because they are the closest accounts we have towards what Jesus was actually like.


That was not my question . . .

Didn't you ask how the SOTM and the cross were connected? Through the power of Jesus' ministry.

[KaiafromBergen]

Didn't you ask how the SOTM and the cross were connected? Through the power of Jesus' ministry.

No, you said:


The Sermon on the Mount and the redeeming blood of Christ are synonymous.

[Buzzardhut]

Oh my.

The Sermon on the Mount does not save us. Only the redeeming blood of Christ saves us.

there is power in the blood
wonder working power

[iGospel 5]

No, you said:

And that I was explaining in those verse I quoted.

[KaiafromBergen]

there is power in the blood
wonder working power

Thanks, I'm singing that song in my head right now!!!!!