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View Full Version : Once a Sheep Always a Sheep, or Salvation Deficit Disorder?



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Buzzardhut
March 15th, 2009, 01:41 AM
Salvation, as taught in the Bible, is a present possession, received at the time of the new birth or acceptance of Christ as one's personal Savior, and is kept secure or eternal by God's power. Consider such references as John 3:16; John 3:36; John 5:24; John 10:28; Hebrews 9:15; Hebrews 10:10; Hebrews 10:14; I Peter 1:4-5.

Jesus Christ made the promise in John 6:37 that He would never cast out anyone who had trusted Him as Savior for any reason. "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me, and him that cometh to me, I will in no wise cast out." He meant exactly that. There is no circumstance or instance that would cause Christ to cast a saved person aside.

Some have said to me, "Okay, Christ won't cast me out, but I can cast myself out." This is impossible. Read with me John 6:39 where Jesus said, "And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that all which he hath given, I should lose nothing but should raise it up again at the last day." Jesus promises that He will never lose anyone who has come to him for salvation and that this is the Father's will.

If any one saved person were ever lost, then Jesus Christ would be a liar because, He said in John 6:39 that He would not lose one. If just one saved person in all of history were lost, then Jesus Christ would be a liar.

Praise the Lord that Jesus Christ is a Savior who will deliver on what He has promised. "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath (possesses now) eternal life (John 6:47)." Jesus Christ promises eternal life as a present possession to all those who believe (trust) in Him.

The heart of all the misunderstanding concerning this subject is the fact that human works or merit have zero to do with salvation. Many Scriptures make it so clear that we are saved by faith and not by works. For example: John 3:18; Romans 3:24-28; Romans 4;5; Ephesians 2:8-9 and so on.

In addition to this, there are many clear Scriptures which teach that anyone who is trusting in works (church membership, baptism, confirmation, living the Christian life, etc.) in addition to faith in Christ will not be saved (Romans 11:6; and Galatians 5:2-4). Thus we are to trust in Christ only to be saved.

The work of salvation was finished on the cross by Jesus Christ himself (Hebrews 1:3). If we want to be saved, then we must believe that Jesus Christ finished the work of salvation on the cross, and receive it as God's free gift (Romans 6:23).

"I know that whatsoever God doeth, it shall be forever: nothing can be put to it, nor anything taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him (Ecclesiastes 3:14)." (See also Romans 8:38-39.)

After we are saved, we should live for Christ out of love and gratitude for all He has done for us. We will be rewarded for faithful service or suffer the loss of rewards for not serving the Lord, but we will be eternally saved (Corinthians 3:11-15). Also, if we live in rebellion we will still be saved, but God will chasten us in this life and might take us home to heaven prematurely. (See Hebrews 12:6-8; Corinthians 11:30-32.)

Salvation is by grace through faith. It is a free gift, and is wholly without works (Romans 3:27-28; 4:1-8; 6:23; Ephesians 2:8-9). The divine order is first salvation, then works (Ephesians 2:8-10; Titus 3:5-8).

"Blessed Assurance" is a favorite hymn of many who claim to be saved. But it is only wishful thinking to those who believe they can be saved today and lost tomorrow.

"For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord (Romans 8:38-39)." A saved person can know and be absolutely assured of his or her salvation. Nothing can undo what God has finished (Ecclesiastes 3:14).

"These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that you may know that you have eternal life (I John 5:13)."

Notice Hebrews 10:10-19. Verse 10 says, "By the which will we are sanctified (made pure and holy) through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all." Verse 12 says, "But this man (Jesus Christ), after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God." Verse 14 says, "For by one offering he (Jesus Christ) hath (has) perfected forever them that are sanctified (made pure and holy)." By the way, if you were "perfected forever," could you be certain of eternal life? The answer would obviously be, "YES"! Verses 17 and 18 say, "And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering (no additional offering or sacrifice) for sin." If you will connect the "no more offering" of verse 18 with the "no more sacrifice" of verse 26, you have the answer. That is, God forgives all of our sin (past, present, future) on the basis of Christ's death on the cross of Calvary. We need do nothing else to be saved.

As the hymn writer said, "What can wash away my sin? Nothing but the blood of Jesus." Even if we sin willfully, we are still saved. Even if we sin willfully, "What can wash away my sin? Nothing but the blood of Jesus," is the one and only answer.

If any one saved person were ever lost, then Jesus Christ would be a liar, because He said in John 6:39 that He would not lose one. If just one person in all of history were lost, then Jesus Christ would be a liar.

Praise the Lord that Jesus Christ is a Savior who will deliver on what He has promised. "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath (possesses now) everlasting life (John 6:47)." Jesus Christ promises eternal life as a present possession to all those who believe (trust) in Him.

The heart of all the misunderstanding concerning this subject is the fact that human works or merit have zero to do with salvation. Many scriptures make it clear that we are saved by faith and not by works. For example: John 3:18; Romans 3:24-28; Romans 4:5; Ephesians 2:8-9 and so on.

In addition to this, there are many clear scriptures which teach that anyone who is trusting in works (church membership, baptism, confirmation, living the Christian life, etc.) in addition to faith in Christ will not be saved. (For example: Romans 11:6; Galatians 5:2-4). Thus we are to trust in Christ only to be saved.

The work of salvation was finished on the cross by Jesus Christ himself (Hebrews 1:3). If we want to be saved, then we must believe that Jesus Christ finished the work of salvation on the cross, and receive it as God's free gift (Romans 6:23).

"I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him (Ecclesiastes 3:14)."
(See also Romans 8:38-39).

This does not mean that the Christian has a license to sin. Hebrews Chapters 10, 11 and 12 describe reward and blessing to that Christian who serves the Lord, and chastisement, scourging, plus loss of reward in heaven to the disobedient Christian. To the disobedient, willfully sinning Christian, Hebrews says, " ... The Lord shall judge His people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God (Hebrews 10:30-31)."

We know that Christians can backslide, but that a Christian can never backslide into hell. "But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul (Hebrews 10:39)."

A person who believes that you can lose your salvation is really trusting in works for salvation and is not saved. "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast (Ephesians 2:8, 9)." Usually the person who says that they can lose their salvation says that you must live a consistent Christian life to keep it. To backslide and die would mean that you would go to hell. To say that what you do or what you don't do in your future Christian life can effect your salvation is to depend upon conduct, behavior, or works for salvation. And we know that a person who is trusting in works for salvation is not saved.

"...But if be of works, then is it no more grace." Romans 11:6.

A person standing before God with no grace will go to hell. It is no wonder that the Apostle Peter warned against the error of the wicked (unsaved) and how they would wrestle with a difficult passage to their own destruction (II Peter 3:16, 17).

Even though there are dozens and dozens of clear verses that teach we are saved by grace through faith and eternally saved (Example: John 3:16-18), these persons will not accept plain truth but hang all their doctrine on a "passage that is hard to be understood (II Peter 3:16-17)."

"He that believeth on Him is not condemned, but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God (John 3:18)."

If you are a believer you ought to be serving the Lord, but even if you sin willfully, you are still saved. God loves you that much. His great love and faithfulness ought to constrain us to live daily for Him (II Corinthians 5:14).

"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good Word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance, seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put Him to an open shame." Hebrews 6:4-6

Notice that the passage is talking about those who are saved. There are five things said about them that demonstrate this truth:

First, "Those who were once enlightened" refers to a saved person or one who has seen "the light" of the Lord Jesus Christ. The same word "enlightened" is translated "illuminated" in Hebrews 10:32 and speaks of a saved individual.

Second, "tasted of the heavenly gift" refers to salvation. Romans 6:23 says, "The gift of God is eternal life." Ephesians 2:8 says that salvation "is the gift of God." The word "tasted" is used in Hebrews 2:9 saying Christ "tasted death for every man." We tasted of the heavenly gift in the same way Christ tasted death--that is, fully and completely.

Third, "We're made partakers of the Holy Ghost." The Bible teaches in Romans 8:9, "Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." In other words, if you don't have the Holy Spirit you are not saved. The moment a person trusts Christ as Saviour he or she partakes of the Holy Spirit. If you do not have the Holy Spirit, then you are unsaved.

Fourth, "Tasted the good Word of God." The Bible tells us in I Corinthians 2:14, "But the natural (unsaved) man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." Only the saved man can taste of the Word of God.

Fifth, "The powers of the world to come." Only the born-again man has experienced the power of God. Romans 1:16 says, "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth." A person who is born-again has experienced the power of God.

"If they shall fall away" is not referring to salvation but it is referring to the "Christian life"! Hebrews 6:1 tells us that the writer is speaking about things that accompany salvation. Hebrews 6:1 tells us that the writer is talking about maturity in the Christian life and not about how to be saved.

Well, what is Hebrews 6:6 talking about? Verse six is simply stating to Hebrew (Jewish) believers who were used to a yearly sacrifice that it was impossible for them to be saved again because "by ONE offering He hath perfected forever them that are sanctified [the believers in Christ] (Hebrews 10:14)." Hebrews 6:1 tells us that we cannot "lay again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God."

If a believer falls away from serving the Lord, the procedure is not to become saved again. That is impossible. It is impossible to "renew" them again unto repentance (the change of mind necessary to accept Christ as Saviour).

Hebrews 6:6 warns that if you try to become saved again all you do is crucify Jesus Christ afresh to yourself, thereby shaming Jesus Christ.

The Bible does not teach that one must be born again and again and again, etc. You can only be born-again once, never to be cast out (John 6:37) or lost (John 6:39). Salvation is complete and final. (Read John 5:24).

The solution for a believer fallen away from service to the Lord is to start serving again. We are encouraged by the words of Hebrews 6:10, that "God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love." God will reward faithful service to him. (See I Corinthians 15:58).

God wants us to grow in knowledge of Him, to serve Him and to mature.

Lack in these areas does not mean that we have lost our salvation. That is why it is impossible to get saved again (Hebrews 6:6), because it is impossible to lose salvation (Hebrews 13:5). To try to become saved again (impossible) shames Jesus Christ who has saved us forever (John 6:47; Hebrews 9:12; 10:10; 10:12-14, 17, 18). To serve Him again brings glory and honor to Him (John 12:24), and His blessing and reward is upon us (I Corinthians 15:58).

God's Trombone
March 22nd, 2009, 07:12 AM
I know I'm saved but I still have that ability to screw up and sin again. I also understand I'm in my natural body, and until I'm in heaven with my Lord things will be tough here on Earth. I think what helps me is digging into the Word and keeping up steady communication with God. I'm finding myself in prayer ALOT lately, and I feel closer to God than ever before. When I do fall, for whatever reason, I know God is always there to pick me up, dust me off, and put me back on the narrow path. Thing is, the closer I get to God, the closer I want to be to him, and the things I did that made me fall in the first place just dont seem so appealing anymore.

I guess my point with all that is just dive into the Word, and spend more time with God. Set your eyes on him, and everything else is just small potatoes.

:pray


I have noticed a trend in that sometimes we as Christians confuse our standing before God with our state.

My standing before God is that I am justified by faith. ( Just as if I never sinned)

My sate is one of being sanctified. I am growing through the process of maturing in Christ, being transformed from glory to glory one day at a time. The Holy Spirit reminds me to walk according to His words. Conviction is not the same thing as condemnation. Look for the progress in your life as you walk with Him.

One day (very soon I trust) God will complete the process of my change and I will be glorified with Him because of the work He has done.

As far as the 'Lord I did it again' a pastor I know says God typically replies with 'did what again'. He forgets our sins. He literally chooses not to bring them to memory because God knows everything.

Remember God cleanses from all unrighteousness. Past present and even the future ones I don't know I am going to do. I am to walk with Him.

Look for the Labor of Love, Work of Faith and Steadfastness in the hope of Christ in your life.

Amen! No matter how "down" things appear, and how "down" you become about yourself- keep believing in what Christ has done for you. It's NOT about what we have done, it's all His work done for us. (I Cor. 15: 1-4.)

Metania1
March 23rd, 2009, 12:49 AM
Thats amazing grace. :thumb

God tells us to forgive our brother 70 times 7, shouldn't we expect the same from him?

:yeah

Daughter
March 30th, 2009, 11:45 PM
And the Devil is the father of lies.

John 8:44

"He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies".

Your flesh is not worthy, as others have stated above. However; if you are Born Again you are filled with the Holy Spirit. He has sealed you eternally. You are worthy spiritually to enter into the Throne of God because of the saving Blood of Jesus. The devil is trying to steal your joy of Salvation. Don't let him.Just wanted to say Thank You for that. :hugI needed this at this moment.

The Watchtower
April 3rd, 2009, 11:31 PM
Amen! No matter how "down" things appear, and how "down" you become about yourself- keep believing in what Christ has done for you. It's NOT about what we have done, it's all His work done for us. (I Cor. 15: 1-4.)

Frequent sinning can and will affect your faith. Sinning without repentance can cause us to lose the faith and the presence of the Holy Spirit, which is the basis of our salvation. That's why the Bible says that our body is Temple of the Holy Spirit and that by frequent disobedience of the Word of God by continueing sinning, can sadden the Holy Spirit. That's why David prayed, after he sinned with Bathsheba, in the Psalm 51:11 that God don't abandon from him His Holy Spirit.

Buzzardhut
April 4th, 2009, 03:50 AM
Frequent sinning can and will affect your faith.
yes, it will effect your relationship with God and others


Sinning without repentance can cause us to lose the faith and the presence of the Holy Spirit, which is the basis of our salvation.
our basis of our salvation is the permanent washing of the blood of Christ and the seal of the Holy Spirit, it is not of ourselves lest anyman should boast, we are part of Christ's body, Jesus cannot deny Himself


That's why the Bible says that our body is Temple of the Holy Spirit and that by frequent disobedience of the Word of God by continueing sinning, can sadden the Holy Spirit. That's why David prayed, after he sinned with Bathsheba, in the Psalm 51:11 that God don't abandon from him His Holy Spirit.yes, sin saddens the Holy Spirit but David was in OT times, we are in the church age where the Holy Spirit remains implanted and is not removed.

Anddra
April 4th, 2009, 04:16 AM
Frequent sinning can and will affect your faith. Sinning without repentance can cause us to lose the faith and the presence of the Holy Spirit, which is the basis of our salvation. That's why the Bible says that our body is Temple of the Holy Spirit and that by frequent disobedience of the Word of God by continueing sinning, can sadden the Holy Spirit. That's why David prayed, after he sinned with Bathsheba, in the Psalm 51:11 that God don't abandon from him His Holy Spirit.

Every time we sin it affects our relationship with God. However, it does not affect our eternal salvation. Do you not think that Jesus is able for the responsibility He has been given?


For I am come down from heaven, not that I should do my will, but the will of him that has sent me. And this is the will of him that has sent me, that of all that he has given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up in the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that every one who sees the Son, and believes on him, should have life eternal; and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:38-40 (Darby) (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%206:38-40;&version=16;)

The Watchtower
April 4th, 2009, 04:18 AM
Being ready for the rapture does not mean trying to live good enough to be raptured. Paul says if anyone is in Christ s/he is a new creation, all new creations in Jesus will be raptured.

So if OSAS is true then,

Why does God ask us:

-to be holy (separated from the wordly activities and evil) according to 1 Peter 1:15-17 which says "But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning [here] in fear:"

-to be separated from the worldly activities and sins according to James 4:4 which says "Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. "

- why go to church if we will never lose our salvation?
- why pray to God if He will always clean us from every sin, whether we repent or not?
- why repent of our daily sins if the Holy Spirit is the One that's going to make us repent?
- why read the Bible?
- why fight against Satan so he doesn't destroy our faith, if God won't never allow that to happen, according to OSAS?
- why worry with this text, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." ,if it's only for people who aren't saved?(According to OSAS) So if you are a constant practitioner of adultery doesn't that make you an adulterer? So if you are a christian but are addicted to adultery and you aren't regretfull of it, then will you go to heaven when you die? Will Jesus ignore your rebellion, disobedience and lack of repentance of your sin by rapturing you when He comes?

Of course not, look what Jesus responded to the woman (the adulteress) who came to Him in repentance and to desperately be freed from the bondage she was in:"go, and sin no more." John 8:11

I wish the OSAS really was the truth so I can have "carte blanche" to commit sin as much as I want to.:hat


We don't know how these chips are going affect the people compared to those you posted. The chips are implemented for those who CHOOSE to take the mark. If it is forcefully implented onto someone we don't know how that's going to work along side God's word? This seems to be the only valid case.

These brain/biochips, that I have presented in the above mentioned BBC articles, don't have the 666 inside of them yet so no one will be condemned yet if they use them or put them inside their body. The majority of the people in the Great Tribulation will be more then happy and honored to have the 666 mark in their hands or their foreheads. If you don't want it to be planted into your body then you will lose your job, properties, won't be allowed to make any kind of transaction and finally you will be beheaded because of your refusal.

Anddra
April 4th, 2009, 04:31 AM
OSAS is not a carte blanche to sin. If you are saved, then you do not want to sin. Sure, the flesh is still in us and sinful things still appeal to the flesh but there is also something else in us that wars against this. This is basic. If we cannot understand Romans, then we will not be able to understand the later epistles.


What shall we say then? [is] the law sin? Far be the thought. But I had not known sin, unless by law: for I had not had conscience also of lust unless the law had said, Thou shalt not lust; but sin, getting a point of attack by the commandment, wrought in me every lust; for without law sin [was] dead. But I was alive without law once; but the commandment having come, sin revived, but I died. And the commandment, which [was] for life, was found, [as] to me, itself [to be] unto death: for sin, getting a point of attack by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew [me]. So that the law indeed [is] holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Did then that which is good become death to me? Far be the thought. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death to me by that which is good; in order that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am fleshly, sold under sin. For that which I do, I do not own: for not what I will, this I do; but what I hate, this I practise. But if what I do not will, this I practise, I consent to the law that [it is] right. Now then [it is] no longer I [that] do it, but the sin that dwells in me. For I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, good does not dwell: for to will is there with me, but to do right [I find] not. For I do not practise the good that I will; but the evil I do not will, that I do. But if what I do not will, this I practise, [it is] no longer I [that] do it, but the sin that dwells in me. I find then the law upon me who will to practise what is right, that with me evil is there. For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man: but I see another law in my members, warring in opposition to the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which exists in my members. O wretched man that I [am]! who shall deliver me out of this body of death? I thank God, through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then I myself with the mind serve God's law; but with the flesh sin's law.
Romans 7:7-25 (Darby) (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%207:7-25;&version=16;)

The Watchtower
April 4th, 2009, 04:48 AM
OSAS is not a carte blanche to sin. If you are saved, then you do not want to sin. Sure, the flesh is still in us and sinful things still appeal to the flesh but there is also something else in us that wars against this. This is basic. If we cannot understand Romans, then we will not be able to understand the later epistles.

Andra, I understand Romans completely. Romans 8:1 describes it best: "[There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."
and also Romans 8:6-8 "For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded [is] death; but to be spiritually minded [is] life and peace. Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God."
and also Romans 8:12-13 "Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live."

Galatians 5:16-21 "[This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Colossians 3:5-6 "Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:"

Btw, OSAS is a contradiction to the parables of the lost sheep and the prodigal son described in Luke chapter 15.