Once a Sheep Always a Sheep, or Salvation Deficit Disorder?

[KaiafromBergen]

Hey Jack :). All I am saying bro, is that when we do sin repentance is required. I have judged anyone at all, but there are back sliding is a result for someone who has gone back to sinning. It is natural for people to sin, and after we are saved and reborn we still sin, but repentance is needed when we do. We can not continue in our sins regardless, if we say we are saved and keep not his commandments, we are liars and the truth is not in us (1 John 2:4). It's not possible to be saved then keep living a sinful life and say you have eternal life. John the beloved teaches us that right there in 1 John. We all as Christians must read 1 John carefully, it shows specifically about Christians sinning and how we can backslide.

They why did Paul continue to sin or in his sin? He talked about this:


Rom 7:15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.

Rom 7:16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good.

Rom 7:17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me.

Rom 7:18 I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. [fn] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.

Rom 7:19 For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do-this I keep on doing.

Rom 7:20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

Rom 7:21 So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me.

Rom 7:22 For in my inner being I delight in God's law;

Rom 7:23 but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members.

Rom 7:24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death?

Rom 7:25 Thanks be to God-through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

[Everlasting Peace]

Hey Jack :). All I am saying bro, is that when we do sin repentance is required. I have judged anyone at all, but there are back sliding is a result for someone who has gone back to sinning. It is natural for people to sin, and after we are saved and reborn we still sin, but repentance is needed when we do. We can not continue in our sins regardless, if we say we are saved and keep not his commandments, we are liars and the truth is not in us (1 John 2:4). It's not possible to be saved then keep living a sinful life and say you have eternal life. John the beloved teaches us that right there in 1 John. We all as Christians must read 1 John carefully, it shows specifically about Christians sinning and how we can backslide.

I'm not Jack Kelley - I was quoting an article by him to address your question (link is provided at end of quote).

Once you are saved, nothing else is required to maintain that salvation. It is impossible to not sin; therefore, born-again Christians will continue to sin after they're saved. Once a person is saved (even if they backslide) they have eternal security.

[Kliska]

Alright, well lets say I had gotten saved one Sunday. And since there is no more law for believers, I go and look at pornography. Is that sin? And will I go to Hell for that? Without repentance, of course, I have backslided and have broken a commandment with knowledge. Regardless, we all have broken the commandments. If you sin with your conscience you are of the Devil. 1 John 3:8

If you are really and truly saved, it will not be laid at your feet as "sin." It is a sinful act, but the law is no longer there to accuse you, nor condemn you. The commandments are part of the law, and we are no longer under the law. You now are "covered" by Christ's righteousness; not your own.

Keep reading in 1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

You agree that believers can indeed sin, but here it says here CANNOT, not will not, but literally cannot. This is why Paul had to make it clear that though we cannot technically sin, we should not. Again, sinful acts do not separate us (believers) from Christ as we are not under the law, and it is the law that condemns.

[100knight]

Revelation 3:5
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.



Revelation 20:15
If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

I respectfully disagree with you Tres. In your first Scriptural example, you overlook the first part of the Scripture (in bold). An overcomer is not one who backslid, or one who was lukewarm. An overcomer, as it namesake directly implies, is a prestigious title reserved for those who do not falter, and stay strong in their faith until the end, not one who decided to be saved, and then did nothing because his/her 'eternal security' would get him/her into heaven regardless of what they did.

The second quote doesn't help the OSAS cause, but it in fact helps it's opposition, as it supplements the first Scripture.


EDIT: And now I pose a question:

People say that if OSAS isn't true, that they wouldn't be saved by my (non-OSAS) standards. My question is why is this? Do you/they not repent after sinning? :scratch

TIA

[Steve53]

Jesus said;


John 6:39 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=50&chapter=6&verse=39&version=9&context=verse)
And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

[Evangelist16]

Well regardless of who is right, the final thing we can look at is "Blessed are the pure at heart: for they shall see God. (Matthew 5:8) If your pure at heart and Christ Jesus, God is the only one who knows who is truly saved and shall inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. We can't keep living in sin though, regardless. If we get saved, then are still living a sinful life and caring less of what sins we have comitted, do you think we are still pure at heart?

[Steve53]

If we get saved, then are still living a sinful life and caring less of what sins we have comitted, do you think we are still pure at heart?

No. I think in that case you weren't really saved to begin with.

[Everlasting Peace]

We can't keep living in sin though, regardless.

Good luck with that.

[100knight]

Good luck with that.


Which is why God created repentance. We should strive to be like him. The way you put it sounds like you aren't even trying to avoid sinning.

[Everlasting Peace]

Which is why God created repentance. We should strive to be like him. The way you put it sounds like you aren't even trying to avoid sinning.

Which is why Christ died on the cross - to pay for all our past, present, and future sins because it is impossible for humans to not sin (saved or not). A person who is truly saved should want to live a life to please the Lord, but that doesn't mean they won't sin. Repentance is a good thing, but not mandatory to maintain eternal security. As discussed with you once before, it makes no sense that you can be saved one moment, sin - and die before you have a chance to repent - and go to hell according to your belief. Trying to be good enough to maintain salvation is a works-based false doctrine. Trying to please the Lord, even though salvation is guaranteed, is a thank you for His sacrifice and grace.