Once a Sheep Always a Sheep, or Salvation Deficit Disorder?

[ATYCLB]

Getting us back on topic:

"For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers,
nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall
be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Romans 8:38-39

[Anddra]

"... I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day."
2 Timothy 1:12 (NKJV)

[Anddra]

o.0 I don't get how that's possible if someone was a christian then later becomes a satanist (the literal satan worshipper kind) then they get into heaven? o.0

Not all who profess to be Christians are saved...

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
Matthew 7:21-23 (NKJV)

[Tres Wright]

Not all who profess to be Christians are saved...

Same thing I was going to say. I doubt that a Satan worshipper was ever truly a disciple of the Most High. There are many who call themselves Christians, but who never call upon Christ for salvation. The first counts for nothing, the second for everything.

[Thomas3599]

The teaching of OSAS is very dangerous. I come out of Southern Baptist Teaching of once saved always saved. People will argue you can't lose your salvation. We have to look at the bible only not what people say. The SB take 2 of the 5 points of Calvinism. They believe a true believer will endure until the end.

When you look at the word salvation all through the bible we find that its Jesus. Where is Jesus right now? Heaven at the right hand of the Father. Hebrews 9:28 says Jesus is coming to bring SALVATION to those who are waiting. 1 Peter is one of their promises the SB claim. Listen close. 1 Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God THROUGH FAITH UNTO SALVATION ready to be revealed in the last time.
Ephesians 2:8 say we are saved by grace THROUGH FAITH not of work of ourself

Its impossible to work or earn your salvation. ITS FINISHED, COMPLETED all on the Cross.

All we need is FAITH in the proper thing. Jesus and His finished work on the Cross.

We don't posses salvation here on this earth. We have it along with all the promises in the bible through FAITH in Jesus. FAITH is what you believe in your heart. Its the action part of what you truly believe in your heart. Titus 1:16 tell us many confess the Lord with their mouth, but by their actions they deny Him.

John 10:27 & 28 tells us we cannot be snatch or plucked from the God Hand. That word means you can't be taken quickly or forced out of God's hand. Satan knows this. But we can abandon, wander and not even know it.

After we accept Jesus we must make every effort to enter through the narrow gate. Luke 13:24 That effort is building our faith through the Word of God. Salvation's work is finished. God has given each one a measure of faith. Romans 10:17 tells where we build our faith from.
Some people never grow in the Word of God. Their faith is in a Church, doctrine, preacher, parent, friend and so on. If our faith is in the Word of God its built on Jesus. John 1:14 the Word became flesh.

Mark 13:13 says we must stand firm until the very end.

Look at Colossians 1:21 & 22 this tell us what we have through the blood of Christ. Look at verse 23. IF YOU CONTINUE IN THE FAITH.

Hears the warning we have 1 Tim 4:1 people will wander from the faith. Question ? can a lost person wander from the faith? NO You have to be in the FAITH first.

Paul tells us in Roman 11:20-24 talks about being cut out and grafted back in. Can a lost person be cut out? NO You have to be in the Tree first.

When we as believers sin we are not going to hell. We are held through faith in God. But what can happen is we can become caught up in sin and soon our faith can move from God and fall back to faith in the things of this world. Salvation is still were it always has been. We had it through faith, are faith can move, God is still where He has always been. The Holy Spirit will do everything He can to draw us back.

The danger in the doctrine comes when a person after accepting Jesus never gets in the word to build their faith up. They wander away but they think they are still saved. We live in an ocean of sin. When we accept Jesus we get in the boat with Him. But guess what we are not to the shore yet. Shore is heaven. Paul said in 2 Tim 4:7 I have kept the faith.

I will close I have many family members and friend who don't have a relationship with Jesus and never darken the doors of any church, but they say they are already saved. James 5:19 and 20 tells to go after them. 2 Peter 3:17 warns us not fall from our secure position.

Bottom line build a relationship with Jesus through His Word and don't put your faith in a doctrine of men.

God Bless

[Kliska]

Thomas, your whole post pretty much ignores several main ideas that OSAS puts forth, and scripture tends to support. For example, if the sheep wanders off, the shepherd goes and gets it. If a shepherd is there with a sheep, do you think that the sheep is smart enough to shake the shepherd, esp. if this Shepherd is omnipresent, omniscient, etc...? Scripture is clear; salvation is not by works, so the maintenance of salvation is not a work on our part either. If someone wanders away, and they still maintain they are saved, there is apparently faith in Christ there, or else they wouldn't be talking about still being saved.

[Christina]

Do you believe you have to be able to speak in tongues, to be filled with the Holy Ghost?

Not at all.

What you're basically insinuating is that only those who speak in tongues are filled with the Holy Spirit and every other born again believer is not?:scratch

[Thomas3599]

Thomas, your whole post pretty much ignores several main ideas that OSAS puts forth, and scripture tends to support. For example, if the sheep wanders off, the shepherd goes and gets it. If a shepherd is there with a sheep, do you think that the sheep is smart enough to shake the shepherd, esp. if this Shepherd is omnipresent, omniscient, etc...? Scripture is clear; salvation is not by works, so the maintenance of salvation is not a work on our part either. If someone wanders away, and they still maintain they are saved, there is apparently faith in Christ there, or else they wouldn't be talking about still being saved.

We must be careful that we are not deceived. Satan has only one tool left and that is deception.

Jesus said we must stand firm until the end. Some believers will be placed with unbelievers.
Matthew 24:13, Mark 13:13.

Matthew 7:21-24 Jesus tells of people who ate and drank with Him and drove out demons. They were close to the Lord at one time.

Luke 12:45-46 this parable talks about someone waiting on his master and at the very end fell away. Jesus said he will be placed with unbelievers.

All we need is faith of a mustered seed.

Revelation 3:15-16 talks of the lukewarm. These are people who know the Lord.

We can go back and forth on this all day long. I claim the promises of the Word of God. I think when a person has placed their faith in Christ its very hard for them to fall away. But I can't ignore the warnings in the Word of God.

If I'm wrong and stand before the Lord and He says you were locked in at age 9. You didn't have to get so deep in the faith. I have lost nothing.
But if the bible is true and a person can wander, abandon and shipwreck their faith, then it will cost many eternal salvation with the Lord. Jesus said it in Matthew 7:21-24. Depart from me. I'm not going to take a chance with my families salvation.

A PERSON CAN'T EARN OR WORK FOR THEIR SALVATION. HOW CAN YOU WORK ON SOMETHING THAT IS FINISHED ?

When it comes to our faith God gave us, we have a choice where we place it.

Colossians 1:23 says if your continue in the faith. That's a choice.

God Bless you. I would rather error this way than the OSAS man made doctrine.

[Steve53]

http://www.raptureready.com/featured/graham/g76.html



“In Christ”


By Ron Graham
“Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.” 2 Corinthians 5:17. Remember when you first accepted the truth of the Gospel and invited Jesus Christ into your life? You were changed at the instant you first believed. Old things, things you weren’t very happy with in your life, were deleted (passed away). Why then do you dwell on those things God has tossed away? Why do many believers go back to what influenced them and moved them towards evil desires?
That’s how Satan works. He knew you before you were a new creation,and he thoroughly enjoys watching you squirm as he reminds you of your past. But it doesn’t need to be like that. “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus...” Romans 8:1. What does Paul mean when he refers to those who are “in Christ Jesus”?There is a spiritual union between Christ and believers. We are “In Christ” by faith, and Christ is in us by His Holy Spirit.
Condemnation only comes from Satan or his minions of evil,never from the Holy Spirit. But oh how we moan and groan as we’re reminded of our past failures. We have been changed in God’s eyes and He now sees us through His beloved Son,Jesus the Christ. If that’s how God sees us then it makes sense that Satan would have his work cut out for himself trying to get us to look back at what we once were. Sadly, many believers today allow Satan to have his way with them. Not only by looking back but going back to what we know is not of God.
Satan has no authority over the heart, soul, mind, or spirit of a believer. He can’t touch who we areunless we allow him access through what we allow to enter our minds. The actions of many Christians today prove he has been allowed access to their hearts. In other words, every time we, for even just a moment, take our eyes off Jesus, Satan is there to move usfurther away from God and His truths until we either realize what he’s doing and make a beeline back to God,or we fall flat on our face having given in to the flesh once again.
Satan’s influences in this world are quite pervasive. It’s very difficult to live in this world and not be conformed to it. As believers it’s even more troublesome trying to get through life untouched by Satan’s influences. “Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:” Ephesians 2:2.Satan is the prince of the power of the air and as such he controls the minds and the actions of many who have influence over us. Satan has his hand in our government, our news media, our movies and television programming, and sports that so many are completely addicted to. Satan’s influence in this world should be a daily reminder to believers of just how depraved this world is, and how we were once a part of that depravity.
Going to church on Sunday and Wednesday will help keep us focused on God,but it isn’t enough to completely stave off Satan’s influential attacks. We fellowship on those days and for a while all outside influence seems to melt away while we are worshipping God and our minds are being renewed and refreshed. Then we step back out into the world, and many of my brethren no more than reach their couches than they grab the remote and voilà the church’s influence wanes and Satan begins to take control and project his messages into their minds.
In most secular homes where there is little or no godly influence,we can expect the average individual’s mind to be filled with what’s spewed from the airwaves and cable and have little regard to how all that filth might be affecting their outlook on life. But for those who are “In Christ” it’s more than a little disheartening that they too would allow their minds to be opened to such a huge evil influence as TV. Many of my brethren are shocked when I tell them that my family and I exist without television programming in our home.
“In Christ” means that we are different than those who don’t believe, it means we do everything we can to eliminate the evil that can corrupt our minds as well as the minds of our loved ones. Satan will attack us through whatever means possible and his influence over the media and entertainment industry is obvious. If we are truly “In Christ” then we are a new creation,and as such we are not of the world any longer but we are of God. Everything we do and every decision we make should be as though God were making the decision with us. How many times a day do we mindlessly allow Satan to have his way with our minds?
Why are there so many problems in my life? Why can’t I have a good solid loving relationship with my partner? If we live together aren’t we married in God’s eyes? Why do I need to be married to have sex with the boy I love? Why can’t I view pornography, I’m not hurting anyone,and how can it be a sin if it is only something my eyes are seeing? Why can’t I get a divorce, if I don’t love my wife any more I should be able to seek and find happiness with someone who will love me and fulfill me, shouldn’t I? These and many other questions come to me via the email inbox on my computer. Again, I must ask you,the reader, what does Paul mean when he makes the statement “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.” 2 Corinthians 5:17. Ask yourself are all things new with me or am I still of the world?

Are you allowing Satan to bring to the forefront of your mind all the past sins you were involved in so he can bring you to a point of despair? If so, you’re allowing Satan to win and you will lose the joy God has given you through Jesus Christ our Lord. I’m not saying you’ll lose your salvation,but you will be miserable as you allow Satan’s attacks to numb your mind to his evil influences.
When we first believe we’re excited even energetic and become like a magnet drawing others to us. Even those who don’t believe see a difference in us. Then we get a little further in our walk with Jesus and many times we become complacent and can even become a little discouraged. Eventually many turn back, they’re back in the world again and begin to take up where they left off doing many of the things they did before they were saved. I’m not using a wide brush here saying this happens to every born again believer, but it does happento many who are professing Christians and the question is why? Why do so many professing Christians allow themselves to be influenced in such a way that they would return to a life that they once wanted out of?
In the parable of the sower,Jesus points out four different soils, but here I’m only going to address the first of the four. Where did some of the first seeds fall? “And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:” Matthew 13:4. In Luke’s Gospel we are given a clear look at what’s behind this parable. “Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.” Luke 8:12.Interestingly, Jesus is telling us that this group of people heard the word of God preached and it actually entered their hearts. A question I get all the time is “Can a Christian lose their salvation”? The answer to that question is an emphatic no. Those mentioned above who heard the word but allowed Satan to remove it from their hearts may actually think they are saved. But Jesus says “lest they should believe and be saved.” There is no salvation for them to lose. They never had it.
Could this be the reason so many who’ve professed to being Christian and seemed at times to be following Jesus turned back to what they gave up after they first heard the word? We can’t be “In Christ” and of the world at the same time. That would be a contradiction in terms. We can’t worship God one or two hours per week,and then arbitrarily turn off our Christianity so we can assimilate into the world system,and then back to Jesus on Sunday again. Jesus doesn’t want that kind of follower. Jesus bought and paid for us with His blood and He owns every part of us which gives Him the right to all our time for all our remaining life, not just our Sunday morning worship time. We must make up our minds to which of these we will serve:the Lord Jesus or Satan. Allowing our minds to be filled with perverse influences is not following Jesus’ commands. Allowing Satan to creep in and remind us of all our past failures is also a failure to follow Jesus exclusively.

More at link ....

[marie2]

So I guess that I can safely assume my son who died 3 years ago at 28 has been in hell all this time. By some of the posts here thats what I am getting. This is a very bitter pill to swallow. The way I get through this awful tragedy is by God's promises alone. My son went to church (but not every Sunday), he was saved at 13 and I think he meant it at the time. My son believed that Jesus was the Son of God and died for his sins. The last movie he saw was "Passion of the Christ" (easter Sunday, 2 wks before he passed). He loved it and said it was an 'eye opener'. His bil died 3 months before him and he was worried to death that he wasn't saved. My son didn't read much, so of course that includes the bible.
However my son was still a sinner. In fact he got on a motorcycle with a friend of his while both had been drinking and his friend lost control and that was that. I always assumed that the friend lived because he wasn't saved and God was giving him more time; and my son died because Christ either wanted him home then or was saving him from living a life as a vegetable. I had one day hoped to ask Jesus why my son left me early. But if the only people who are saved are the ones who doesn't sin anymore then I guess this isn't a possibility. I believe in OSAS, but if you truly have to turn from all sin in order to enter heaven then I guess like some of you said 'they were just posers'. If the holy spirit couldn't have been living in my son because he wasn't doing perfectly Godly things and still had sin in him then maybe God let him go. I sure hope not. My family believes my son was saved. But he didn't do everything perfect nor did he ever live without sin. This hurts.
:cry

i AM a saved woman, i got saved at the age of 20. at 4:30 in the morning i confessed my sins to the Lord and ask forgiveness and ask him to be my savior. i KNOW that i am saved, positively. that morning i came to love the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit more than life itself and will until my dying day. Now with that said, i'm not perfect, i miss up, i sin, and when i do i feel sick! and i confess it to the Lord and ask him to forgive me and help me not to sin again. anyone who says they have not sinned once since the day they were saved, is not telling the truth. NO, i don't murder or steal or any of the sins people call BIG ones, but somtimes i'm rude for just a minute and regret it, sometime i repeat something i wish i hadn't, and regret it, but God says all sins are the same and that Jesus died on the cross to pay for those sins, and I believe him. God said my salvation was a gift and it is free to me but Jesus paid for it and i believe him. how many people have you bought a gift for and went and took it back if they messed up? God doesn't do that either. don't believe that your son is in heaven because i tell you, but because of what His word tells you.:hug