Once a Sheep Always a Sheep, or Salvation Deficit Disorder?

[Mommytoa3rdgradeboy]

Does Matthew 7 have anything of an impact on the subject?

Verses 13-23 say: Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

The verses that really caught my eye were verse 19 ending at 23, about how the bad trees are cut down to how believers are cast into hell.

Is once saved always saved like the golden tool that fixes everyone's salvation through their faith? All it takes is to believe? And if that's so, you could live like the world, do the things of the world, and still make heaven?

If a believer has bad fruit in his life he will be hewn down as the verse says right? If fruit is translated as acts then shouldn't we repent everytime we bear bad fruit? Or do we keep it, with the notion of eternal security in mind?

Lord Jesus even mention how born again believers who do his works and wonders are cast into the pit. I think it's safe to say these people were those who asked Jesus into their hearts and became saved, but were cast away because of their inquity. They practiced their sin and did not repent. They bathed in it and, even though they did his works, were cast off. If we are truly saved forever, why does this happen? Is it a certain amount of faith? I know God saves us, and not us by ourselves, but what is the evidence of a truly saved person?

This leads me to the issue of repentance. On a site I adore very much, gracethrufaith.com, he says generally how all our sins are paid for, which are indeed found in the Bible. But if that's the case, why is their a narrow way, and how come so few find it. It seems like an easy thing to do if you ask Jesus Christ into your heart, I know I'm saved, however every time I sin, whether concious or unconcious, I feel the need to repent, because I'm convicted of the holy spirit. And also because I fear God and hate my sin.

This is just the way I see things. It just seems to good to just believe and be saved just like that, especially after I hear so many professing Christians who have done the same after crying out to God after being saved being just like world in every way possible.

This has always been a concern of mine...but recently, I heard it preached that the narrow way is basically the belief that to get to Heaven ye must be born again, and the broad way is the belief that there are many paths to Heaven. (meaning just being good enough, Budda, etc.) We here all know that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life and that no man should come to the Father, but through Jesus. Someone please correct me if I am wrong on this.

[kgreen20]

I agree. Jesus is the narrow gate and the straigth and narrow path. There is no other way to Heaven but through Him. The road to Hell, on the other hand, is broad and includes every other way--other religions, trying to be good, going to church or having Christian parents, etc.

[Anddra]

<snip>
This leads me to the issue of repentance. On a site I adore very much, gracethrufaith.com, he says generally how all our sins are paid for, which are indeed found in the Bible. But if that's the case, why is their a narrow way, and how come so few find it. It seems like an easy thing to do if you ask Jesus Christ into your heart, I know I'm saved, however every time I sin, whether concious or unconcious, I feel the need to repent, because I'm convicted of the holy spirit. And also because I fear God and hate my sin.

This is just the way I see things. It just seems to good to just believe and be saved just like that, especially after I hear so many professing Christians who have done the same after crying out to God after being saved being just like world in every way possible.

The answer to the dilemma is in your post...

Those who are saved will feel the need to repent when they sin. Those who feel no such need, and continue to 'bathe' in their sins as you put it, have not been saved.

[Christina]

The verses that really caught my eye were verse 19 ending at 23, about how the bad trees are cut down to how believers are cast into hell.

Is once saved always saved like the golden tool that fixes everyone's salvation through their faith? All it takes is to believe? And if that's so, you could live like the world, do the things of the world, and still make heaven?

Lord Jesus even mention how born again believers who do his works and wonders are cast into the pit. I think it's safe to say these people were those who asked Jesus into their hearts and became saved, but were cast away because of their inquity. They practiced their sin and did not repent. They bathed in it and, even though they did his works, were cast off. If we are truly saved forever, why does this happen? Is it a certain amount of faith? I know God saves us, and not us by ourselves, but what is the evidence of a truly saved person?

This leads me to the issue of repentance. On a site I adore very much, gracethrufaith.com, he says generally how all our sins are paid for, which are indeed found in the Bible. But if that's the case, why is their a narrow way, and how come so few find it. It seems like an easy thing to do if you ask Jesus Christ into your heart, I know I'm saved, however every time I sin, whether concious or unconcious, I feel the need to repent, because I'm convicted of the holy spirit. And also because I fear God and hate my sin.

This is just the way I see things. It just seems to good to just believe and be saved just like that, especially after I hear so many professing Christians who have done the same after crying out to God after being saved being just like world in every way possible.

Saire Arkalla, I'll try and address your points the best way I know how.

In reference to your first statement about OSAS being the "golden tool" that fixes everyone's Salvation through their faith.....Salvation is not a license to sin so no you can't get saved and then just go about living your life like the ungodly world, bathing in your sin and living it up and then expect to make it into God's Kingdom. OSAS teaches that if you can live like that and bathe in your sin with no remorse or conviction, then the chances that you are truly saved is very low, meaning....you're likely not saved in the first place. Slavation yes, is through faith in God's grace alone and nothing more so yes, all you have to do is believe but that's where there seems to be a problem for some. Some people seem to think that saying the "sinners prayer" means they believe and they're going to Heaven. These are the ones that will claim to do the Lord's work and cast out demons in His name and will be told to go because Jesus will say He never knew them. These are not true born again believers who have struggled with sin or people who claim to be Christians but use their Salvation as a license to sin (I don't believe those types are saved in the first place) these will be those that simply said the words without the BELIEF to go with it. Just because someone SAYS they believe, and just because someone SAYS they are a Christian....doesn't mean they are. We are told not to judge another's Salvation because that is the Lord's job......this leads me to your next question...

If someone is truly saved (there are many discussions on the board about this so I won't debate the different views, I can only express mine) they are indwelt by the Holy Spirit and when one is indwelt by the Holy Sprit, there will be changes in their life....changes that are evidence of their Salvation. To be clear, this is not Salvation + works, this is Salvation EVIDENCED by fruits of the Spirit or the products of fruits of the Spirit. If the Holy Spirit is truly living in you, your desires change, your thoughts change...the things of the world that used to burden you down no longer matter to you, the things you used to view as "ok" (partying with friends, little white lies, cursing, etc...) now pierce your heart when you do them or you feel convicted for doing them.....the Spirit nudges you to show you that this is not right by God. As the Bible says, when we become saved...old things are passed away and behold all things become new. This means we are new creatures in Christ and the old man (our old lives and lifestyles) are passed away (dead) and we are renewed in the Spirit. So.....there should be changes in your life due to having the Holy Spirit now living in you and guiding you.

Salvation isn't based on any level of faith or amount of faith, what matters is do you believe or not. There is no such thing as I "sorta" believe or I have "some" faith....it's an either all or nothing, either you have faith or you don't. Narrow is the way is refering to Jesus being the "narrow way" and it's true...not many find it. Sure people hear of Jesus but not many choose the path, this narrow path which is Him. To you and me and other believers, yes it seems like such an easy thing to do, to believe...you would figure that the whole world would want to know Jesus as their Lord and King...how could people not want a Father with such love and mercy, such grace and compassion? How could the world not want a King that has promised to take all our pain and tears away and bring us to spend eternity in His Kingdom with Him as His servants and children? How could the world not want a Blessed Savior who laid down His life for them so that they could escape the fires of Hell? These are the questions I ask myself too but as the Lord said "few there will be that find it"...sure, people find God but only few choose to faith in Him. Even the devil believes in God but that won't get Him to Heaven...Salvation is about believing and putting our faith in the Lord but it's also about picking up our cross and following Him, it's about dying to our flesh and our will and allowing God to do His Will in our lives.

Sorry for the long post but I hope this helps:hug

[Christina]

The answer to the dilemma is in your post...

Those who are saved will feel the need to repent when they sin. Those who feel no such need, and continue to 'bathe' in their sins as you put it, have not been saved.

Ahhh, now why couldn't I do a short and sweet like you did...lol

It's the man vs. woman thing:heh

[Anddra]

Ahhh, now why couldn't I do a short and sweet like you did...lol

It's the man vs. woman thing:heh

You covered it more fully... :)

[ClosetLady]

read this and you can see a different perspective on the story of the roads...


Two Roads, Two Gates, One Goal
This Week’s Feature Article by Jack Kelley

“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.” (Matt. 7:13-14)
This passage is often quoted in reference to the different roads traveled by unbelievers as opposed to believers. Unbelievers are said to be on a broad road with many fellow travelers, all on the way to their destruction. Believers on the other hand are a small segment of humanity and are on a narrow road to salvation. This difference is further defined by some as pertaining to our behavior. The unbeliever’s gate is wide and his road is broad, supposedly indicating that there’s room for all kinds of sinful behavior, while for the believer it’s a small gate and a narrow road suggesting that there’s very little latitude for misbehaving. A careless step or two and you may find yourself being rerouted onto the broad road.
If you look at these 2 verses alone it’s easy to understand why so many see them this way. But in the context of the chapter a different picture emerges.
In Matthew 7 the people in focus all claim to be believers, and the emphasis is on their fruit. The Lord began by admonishing us against judging others,
“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.” (Matt. 7:1-2)
Verses 3-5 have to do with judgment within the community of believers.
“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.”
We’re all sinners and hypocrites who have a tendency to pounce all over even the “minor” sins of others while ignoring our own massive list of transgressions. Why is it that those who test the Lord’s patience to the max are often the most acrimonious in their accusations of others?
You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? (Romans 2:1-3)
Intolerant, judgmental believers are convinced they’re defending the faith and that they’ll receive the commendation due them from the Lord. But these verses indicate quite the opposite.
As much as we ignore the warnings in verses 3-5, our disregard for verse 6 is even more glaring. It has to do with our attitude toward unbelievers.
“Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces.”
Expecting the unbelieving world to conform to our moral standards is ridiculous. And yet to the world the church is known primarily for its holier-than-thou hypocrisy in doing just that. Like the Pharisees of old we demand that others live up to behavioral standards we ourselves don’t keep. For example studies show that our divorce and abortion rates are no different from theirs. And it’s a known fact that we indulge in more than our share of adultery, theft, gluttony, avarice, greed, and so on, as well.
It’s like we have forgotten all about the Lord’s advice that the best way to convert the world is for the Church to become what it was meant to be, an agent of His love (John 13:34-35). Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness leads you toward repentance? (Romans 2:4) It’s God’s kindness and mercy that bring people to Him, not threats of condemnation.
Some think it’s persecution when unbelievers pass laws that contradict our beliefs and restrict our freedoms while promoting the freedom of others. But maybe it’s just them turning on us for the way we’ve pushed our beliefs on them, like the Lord said they would.
In Matt. 7:7-12 the way to salvation is explained to us. It’s summarized in verse 8. For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened. It doesn’t matter who you are or what you’ve done. If you ask for it, you’ll receive it. It’s this message of hope that’s needed for our time, not judgment and condemnation.
I don’t think it’s an accident that in verse 10 the Lord asked, “Which of you, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake?” The comparison of bread with a stone takes us back to the Wilderness Temptation when Satan challenged Him to turn stones into bread. He replied, “Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.” (Matt. 4:4) God’s Word is life, and Jesus is the bread of life (John 6:35). Stones are dead. If we ask for life will the Lord give us death instead?
But the comparison of a fish to a serpent symbolizes the central thought of the entire chapter. The fish stands for Jesus and became the symbol of His followers. The serpent stands for Satan. Jesus called the leaders of His day’s organized religion children of the devil (John 8:44), who with their insistence on a mindless obedience to their laws (Isaiah 29:13) rather than faith in a coming Redeemer, made their converts twice the sons of hell as they were (Matt. 23:15). They had turned God’s love into a tool of the devil, and sadly there are many in the church still doing the same thing today.
So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.(Matt 7:12) The phrase Law and Prophets was a Jewish idiom for their Scriptures, the Old Testament. While we think of the Golden Rule as a New Testament idea, Jesus said it summarized the Old Testament as well. If you don’t want to be judged, don’t judge. If you don’t want to be condemned, don’t condemn. If you want mercy, be merciful. If you want to be forgiven, forgive. If you want to receive, give. (Luke 6:36-38)
There’s a reason why verses 13-14 are in the middle of the chapter and not the beginning or the end. Up till now we’ve been looking at misdirected believers who think they’re defending the faith but instead will find themselves defending fruitless lives at judgment time. Now we’ll see examples of those who claim to be in the Church, but will actually be left behind when the Rapture comes.
Matt. 7:15-23 warns us against following false prophets, saying, “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ (Matt. 7:22-23)
Appearing to perform miracles in the Lord’s name does not make someone His follower, so we shouldn’t blindly accept them as such, but should inspect their doctrine. Remember Satan will appear to perform miracles and will deceive many. (2 Thes. 2:9-10) Only those who do His father’s will can claim the Son, regardless of what else they say or do. And what is the father’s will? Here’s the Lord’s answer. “My Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.” (John 6:40)
Nowhere is the Father’s will as it regards our salvation stated more clearly. Anyone who adds any requirement or qualification to this declaration (or takes anything from it) is a false prophet even if they perform miracles in the Lord’s name.
“Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock.
But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.” (Matt. 7:24-27)
Here is the Lord’s summary statement complete with one final comparison, this one aimed at the liberals. In Matt. 16: 16-18 Jesus called Peter’s confession that He was the Christ (Messiah), the Son of the Living God, the rock on which He would build the Church. Paul wrote that the rock Moses struck to provide water for the Israelites represented Christ. For they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ. (1 Cor. 10:4) From ancient times, the priest would call God’s people to worship saying, “Come, let us sing for joy to the LORD; let us shout aloud to the Rock of our salvation.” (Psalm 95:1) And today we sing, “On Christ the solid Rock I stand, all other ground is sinking sand.”
A doctrine of salvation that’s built upon anything other than the personal relationship with Jesus that comes from being born again rests precariously on sinking sand. (John 3:3) He alone is the foundation of our faith, and unless our salvation is built exclusively upon this Rock, it will be of no avail to us when we stand before Him on that Day.
From the context of the chapter, we can see that the Lord’s topic was salvation. We don’t deserve ours so we shouldn’t judge others when it looks to us like they don’t deserve theirs. We have no right to think of ourselves as being better than unbelievers, so we shouldn’t try to impose our values on them. We received our salvation simply because we asked for it in faith. There was no merit or worthiness involved, nothing to commend us. But we should be very wary of those who would propose alternatives to salvation by grace through faith alone, whether by adding to or subtracting from it, even if they perform miracles.
Now let’s go back to verses 13-14. Each of the two roads is thought by its travelers to be the way to salvation. But the name engraved above the wide gate is Works and multitudes who call themselves Christians are striving to get there. They run the gamut from extreme legalism to extreme liberalism, but have in common a belief that it’s their behavior that saves them.
The legalist proudly proclaims, “Jesus may have begun my salvation, but I finished it. I have kept the commandments and no longer sin. I have earned the right to call others to account for their behavior. How else will they learn?”
The false prophet says, “I’m a miracle worker, just like the Lord was. Who can doubt that I’m His.”
The artificially modest liberal says “I’m a good person and I’ve tried to live a good life. There are many roads to salvation and as long as we’re sincere in what we believe, the Lord will understand and accept us.”
None of them realizes the road he’s on leads to destruction.
But at the end of the narrow road stands a small gate on which the word Faith is inscribed. As we come alongside the few travelers on this road we can hear them softly singing,
“Just as I am, without one plea,
but that thy blood was shed for me,
and that thou bidst me come to thee,
O Lamb of God, I come, I come.”
This is the road to Life.
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. (Ephesians 2:8-9) Selah. 07-18-09

[CID03]

I read that one the other day. I really enjoy Jack Kelley's website.

[tekton]

All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one.

Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Savior, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen. For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

[kcofohio]

Something I wanted to share with you. These verses are to remind us keep watch over our mouth, but also

show us that we are sealed by the Holy Spirit for the day of redemption. The seal, or signet, was used as

someones personal signature for a promise of their name backed whatever was sealed in wax. Paul was

wanting us not to grieve the Holy Spirit, but that our mouths would speak grace to others. The Ephesians

were told this not to condemn them, but to correct their behavior. We are sealed, not one person can break

that seal. Thank you, Lord Jesus! God bless.



(Eph 4:29) Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers.

(Eph 4:30) And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

(Eph 4:31) Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice.

(Eph 4:32) And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you.


Strong's definition of sealed;

G4972

σφραγίζω

sphragizō

sfrag-id'-zo

From G4973; to stamp (with a signet or private mark) for security or preservation (literally or figuratively); by implication to keep secret, to attest: - (set a, set to) seal up, stop.

:hat