Once a Sheep Always a Sheep, or Salvation Deficit Disorder?

[KissyLoves]

Just to add, one childhood friend of mine, who is deep in a WOF church actually told me that my knowledge of the Bible scares her. THAT scares me, because I think I have fairly little knowledge - - kinda embarassed by the lack of it actually, and she avoids me now because I 'know' too much - - I just don't know how to handle that one, either.

[acceptedintheBeloved]

Look at the greater context of Matt 7 - Jesus is talking about falsh prophets.

Matt 7:13-23
13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Agreed! :thumb

[bek1]

My DH's grandma will not listen. Says she has been saved for 30 years and I know nothing about good Christian teaching. Loves Rick Warren (made us watch him on Christmas Day, yuck!). This is someone that I can't seem to talk to about this. Maybe it's because she intimidates me, but still. She knows how I feel about Rick Warren, and she still gave my DH a book written by him. Pray for her everyday. And maybe "be satisfied" is the wrong term, sorry, but I don't know about yall, but I'm starting to alienate a lot of people in my life because I'm "preaching too much". . . So it's a catch 22. Do I back off to try keep a subtle, softer Christian influence?

I think in a case like this, it would be best to keep praying for her, but maybe let go of trying to change her. I thought you were referring to a situation where you hadn't talked much with the other person. But you have said your piece and she knows how you feel, and at this point the best thing you can do is pray. I have a relationship like that with my mom on a certain doctrinal issue...where I just don't bring it up anymore. She knows what I believe and such, so if she ever wants to ask more questions about it I am available, but it is very evident she doesn't want to talk about it at this point in time, so I won't push it.

[bek1]

bek1,
Thank you for that link to Wilson.
That opened my eyes to something I think should have been obvious to me but I didn't get. That was just really, really good! My Pastor's going to print it out for me and it's 20 pages, he said!
Just...thank you so much! your sister in Christ, Mrs. B


You are soooo welcome!! :hug

[cheymat]

I'm a very firm believer in OSAS, but my husband and his family arent. We are almost completly divided against each other on this topic. I have given my stance, and they have given theirs. A few days ago i was talking on the phone and it really came to a head, with my M-I-L telling me that i need to get re-baptized before I go to hell. The part that always gets to me is when they say, "Well what if someone was saved at 15, and they walked the walk for 10 years and really believed, but then all of a sudden they start to denounce God and say they hate him and, comit murder, and just do the most vile things until they die. Do you think they will go to heaven?" I say they werent saved to begin with, or if they were, then they have lost their heavenly rewards. They laughed at me and said that i was VERY misguided. Thats when she told me that I need to be re-baptized. I told my husband what happened the other day (he is deployed right now and is in the M.E.) He agrees with his parents. He says if what i believe is true then he has nothing to worry about and he can live his life the way he wants to. He says that he accepted The Lord when he was 13, but right now he doesnt feel saved. I told him what he needs is to rededicate his life to Christ. He said, but if what i believe is true, then he doesnt have to.

I have been in tears for the last few days. I cant find anything to really help me with that one point. I have looked all over this message boared, and the main RR site AND the whole internet, but can find nothing. Its gotten to the point where i'm second guessing myself on my beliefs. I'm so sorry that this is a long post, and if this is in the wrong place Mods please move. I just dont know what to do anymore. Please, can someone help? Or am i totaly in the wrong?

[NewWorldOrder]

Are they Church of Christ?

[cheymat]

They are Pentecostals. Im not sure of the name of their church.

[NewWorldOrder]

I ask because the Church of Christ believe the same as your in-laws.

You are correct about salvation. Once you have it, you cannot lose it. It is possible to walk away from it, and never look back, but those people were never really saved in the first place. I believe that a person who is saved, and starts to live the carnal life, so to speak, will feel the tug of the Holy Spirit on their heart, and turn from that lifestyle and back to God. A person who was never saved and decides to leave the faith, will not feel the Holy Spirit speaking to them. Also, baptism does not save you, it is a sign of obedience.

My daughter is dealing with a similar situation with the young man she is dating. He is Church of Christ and they believe you can lose your salvation, and they also teach that you must be baptized to be saved. When she's asked about that they will tell her, one on one, that you must be saved first and then get baptized, but when they are preaching the only thing she hears is that if a person is baptized they are saved. WRONG!!!

[cheymat]

Yeah thats what they believe too. Yesterday my F-I-L sent me an email saying that i need to read The Sermon on the Mount, and also to read the Parable of the sower of the seed. They use the latter as away to say that proves you can lose your Salvation.

[pegmo]

I just had this very same conversation with a friend of mine this week. I was surprised that he thinks you can lose your salvation. He basically thinks you can lose your salvation by not living a life of holiness and obedience. I asked him where the line is between "saved and sinning" and "losing your salvation because of sinning". That would be helpful to know. Seems like we either believe we are saved by God's grace alone, or we revert to thinking we have to keep it under our own power. When our old sin nature is replaced by the nature of Jesus Christ, we seek after the things of God. I can't imagine the nature of Jesus Christ within us rejecting the things of God. However if someone is never really regenerated, then clearly their sin nature chooses sinful things and can easily reject God.

It was interesting because this topic only came up when we began discussing the rapture. He doesn't believe in a pre-trib rapture, he feels it has to be mid or post, because he thinks many christians will need to be woken up and tested in order to be prove worthy to be raptured. That's what he thinks the Tribulation is partly for.

I told him that I think many professing christians will miss the rapture, but not because they were saved and then lost it. But because they were never truly saved in the first place. He disagrees. He thinks we all need to be tested and proven.



I never noticed the link between OSAS and pre-trib before, or the converse of mid or post trib rapture and not believing OSAS. Has anyone else noticed this connection?