Once a Sheep Always a Sheep, or Salvation Deficit Disorder?

[yogi3939]

We believe in the "once saved, always saved" doctrine and yet there are places in the bible that emphatically state that certain sinners will not get into heaven with no mention of whether they were saved or not.

So how do we reconcile this if a saved person backslides and commits one of the "deadly" sins and dies while doing so or being unrepentant of it at the time of death. Please note that the last statement was in no way meant to emulate anything in the Catholic doctrine, It was just a generic "deadly".

Or can we safely say that any person who would still be capable of doing such things may not have been truly saved in the first place.

The following is out of context and does seem to answer my question somewhat if read in context with the verses that precede and follow it, but what if someone is truly sincere about accepting Christ and at a later date gives in to the weakness of the flesh in, say, the area of adultry? I can see where someone who is married can be in a very bad place in that marriage and seek comfort in the arms of someone besides their spouse and commit adultry even though previously saved in a sincere mannor.

Gal 5:19, 21 - 5:19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 5:20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 5:21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God

So which is it, OSAS or damnation for a sin commited after salvation?

Let me state for the record that I do believe in the OSAS doctrine but I am having a problem reconciling that with some other verses that are very specific about not getting into the kingdom of heaven for certain sinful acts.

[Wally]

Answer this question first;

Once saved and the possession of Jesus, is there anything we can do to rip us out of His grasp? Is there anything that can?


You answer should take you to this question:

What is your personal relationship with Jesus?



We can Know the answer to the first question. The second is a personal faith issue that only the individual and the Lord can know. We can only speculate.

[Mishkins]

I would like to see some further discussion on this also. We all know that even those of us who are "saved" still sin. Now does God look at sin and say "ok thats a whopper of a sin" and you're not worthy of salvation? Can sin be measured.
What about if true repentance follows? I know myself many times I've fallen by the way and had to repent and ask Christ for his forgiveness. We all sin - we are HUMAN......
Yep - I'd really like to hear some follow up on this because at times I worry I am not actually "saved" because sometimes I do sin. I always repent - but at times I just fall into sin - it happens. And who is to say one sin is greater than another??? Comments please?? Thanks. Mishk.

[Wally]

The saved will sin, but we have an advocate, we have a savior who bore all our sins. We have a mediator who speaks for us. We have forgivness.


I think the question mutates into a belief:

Once sealed by the Holy Spirit, will God even allow us to commit "sin leading to death". Can God, as a part of the sanctification - maturing process, allow a saved individual the freedom to choose to perform some henious act in order to perfect His work in the person?

To me that would be out of God's character, but then His ways are often far beyond my understanding.

[GreenEyedLady]

We believe in the "once saved, always saved" doctrine and yet there are places in the bible that emphatically state that certain sinners will not get into heaven with no mention of whether they were saved or not.

So how do we reconcile this if a saved person backslides and commits one of the "deadly" sins and dies while doing so or being unrepentant of it at the time of death. Please note that the last statement was in no way meant to emulate anything in the Catholic doctrine, It was just a generic "deadly".

Or can we safely say that any person who would still be capable of doing such things may not have been truly saved in the first place.

The following is out of context and does seem to answer my question somewhat if read in context with the verses that precede and follow it, but what if someone is truly sincere about accepting Christ and at a later date gives in to the weakness of the flesh in, say, the area of adultry? I can see where someone who is married can be in a very bad place in that marriage and seek comfort in the arms of someone besides their spouse and commit adultry even though previously saved in a sincere mannor.

Gal 5:19, 21 - 5:19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 5:20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 5:21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God

So which is it, OSAS or damnation for a sin commited after salvation?

Let me state for the record that I do believe in the OSAS doctrine but I am having a problem reconciling that with some other verses that are very specific about not getting into the kingdom of heaven for certain sinful acts.


I believe that there is a large percent of "Christians" who are NOT saved.
So many Christians have been "led" by a prayer and believe that because they said the prayer they are saved.

I believe this is an epidemic that is going on inside every church in America.

[Christina]

I think we need to seperate falling into a temptation and that sin manifesting itself in our lives. A sin that manifests itself in your life becomes a sin that you no longer feel remorse for, you become numb to it and it continues to happen without repentence, whereas if you fall for a temptation but feel remorse and bring it to the Lord and repent...then this is a different matter all together. I believe the verses are speaking of someone who is living and practicing that sin without conviction and repentence.

[vemee]

I know I am in the minority on the board but I do not believe in once saved always saved. However, I believe that the idea of losing your salvation because of sin is not correct either. There are many scriptures that indicate that salvation is conditional as long as we stay in the faith. For example Hebrews 3:6 says that we are in Christ's house if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end. Again in Hebrews 3:14 "for we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end. 1 Corinthians 15:1-2 also speaks of the need to hold fast to the faith. And finally Colossians 1:22-23 talks about being presented blameless and above reproach in God's sight if we continue in the faith. Sin comes into the equation as a tool to get us to leave the faith. Hebrews 3:12-13 "Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called today, lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin." We are not under the law and the penalty of sin does not apply to us anymore but sin hardens our heart against God. Just like Adam and Eve hid from God when they sin; we when we are involved in sin want to hide from God. God is still there and we are forgiven of the sin but we have our back turned to him in hiding. The result of hiding from God is that our hearts become hardened against him until we no longer believe in him and leave the faith. That is why in 1 John we are told to confess our sins and God will forgive us and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. When we ask for forgiveness we are asking not to be saved again but that God will cleanse us from the damage done by the sin to our hearts.
One of the main points on this topic is that why would a Christian leave God, the answer is that he/she let their flesh take over them until they reached the point of not caring and not believing in God. The main point of discussion is about the free will of man: does man still have the free will to leave God after he is saved. If he does not then he was never saved if he is lost if he does then it is possible to walk away from your salvation. I believe that since there are so many warnings in scripture about contending for the faith and staying in the faith that man still has his free will. Jesus had free will to disobey God when on earth but he chose to submit himself to God and had the ability to overcome temptation. In Matthew 26:39 Jesus asks that "this cup pass" his flesh did not want to go through what he knew would happen but he submitted himself to the Father's will as he did throughout his life. So I think that free will is in play still. Another point is that the scriptures promise that God is able to bring us into salvation but again I think this is qualified by our free will allowing it. The way I look at Bible doctrine is that you carry a concept until it hits a stopping point or an idea that seems to contradict that doctrine. For example predestination is clearly taught in the Bible so to carry that thought all the way through that means that you don't even have to hear the gospel to be saved if you are one of the ones predestined for Heaven. However, scripture says that they can not believe unless they hear so that is one stopping point then there are passages that say if any man comes to Christ he will be saved which brings in free will. Anyway I am getting off track, but I look at the verses that indicate conditionality as stopping points to salvation without freewill.
Those that are caught up in the sins listed in your originating post are in danger of losing their salvation because they are practicing continually actions that harden their hearts against God without seeking the cleansing of unrighteousness. Remember the story of how Jesus washed his disciples feet. I have heard it taught that this also represents God washing the filth of the world from us daily.

[tekton]

Corinthians touches on alot of the same specific sins but then goes on to say "And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God." Paul here is addressing the Church the saved. Of them/us he says "such were some of you" That's who we were not who we are as believers. Now as believers we are washed, sanctified, justified and are no longer under any law. It is impossible for sin (any sin) to separate us from our salvation because there is no more law for those that believe. If there are certain "sins" that can cause us to loose our salvation then we are no better off than we were before we believed and the death of Jesus was of no effect. Jesus death did not (yet) remove our capacity to sin it removed the power of sin and death from over us. Sin CAN NOT separate believers from God.

1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
1Co 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
1Co 6:12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

[Wally]

Amen Tekton :thumb

[Christina]

Sin doesn't seperate us for the Lord but it can effect our relationship with the Lord.