Once a Sheep Always a Sheep, or Salvation Deficit Disorder?

[jgreen0227]

Hebrews 10:26-28

If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

[Chris]

http://www.gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/osas-and-hebrews-10

OSAS And Hebrews 10
Ask a Bible Teacher

Q. I have a question on Hebrews 10:26-29. I was brought up to believe in "once saved, always saved", yet this scripture plus some other scriptures in Hebrews would make someone think that salvation could be lost.

"For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of truth,there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Anyone who has rejected Moses' law will die without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace."

I am new to your site, but you seem to have some pretty knowledgable things to say. Please clear this one up for me.

A. Let's review the concept of OSAS. The Bible clearly tells us that at the moment we first believed, the Holy Spirit was sealed within us as a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance, confirming that our salvation is assured (Ephes. 1:13-14) It also says that we're saved by faith alone, not by works (Ephes. 2:8-9) So the basis for our salvation is belief, not behavior and it's guaranteed right from the start.

These are two incrediblly clear statements on the unconditionality and durability of our salvation, and form the foundation for the OSAS view. To deny OSAS you have to believe that other statements in the Bible rescind or contradict these promises. That means you believe that either God wasn't sincere when He had Paul make them, or that He let Paul make a promise in His name that isn't true, or that He changed His mind and revoked them.

Now let's look at your quote from Hebrews 10:26-29. If the writer was referring to our salvation then the first phrase of that passage has disqualified everyone who has ever lived from ever going to Heaven because no Christian has ever lived a sin free life.

Even the mighty Paul confessed that he couldn't keep himself from sinning. (Romans 7:19) The Apostle John agreed. "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives." (1 John 1:8-10) Both were writing to the Church, not to unbelievers.

Finally, look at the context in which the Hebrews passage was given. The whole letter is an argument against the tendency of Jewish believers to go back into the Levitical system. Statements both before and after the passage you quoted confirm the confidence we have that Jesus paid the whole price for all the sins of our lives.

Hebrews 10:19-23 says, "Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body, and since we have a great priest over the house of God, let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful."

And Hebrews 10:35-36 says, "So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded. You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised." Jesus Himself said that the will of God is that everyone Who looks to the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life. (John 6:40)

Taken in that context Hebrews 10:26-29 says that there's no longer any acceptable sacrifice for sin in the Levitical system, and that looking for one has the effect of "trampling the Son of God underfoot, counting the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulting the Spirit of grace," and that going back to the Law of Moses after Jesus had come to fulfill it was a worse insult to God than disobeying it before He came.

But even that wouldn't cost them their salvation. As that other favorite of OSAS deniers, Hebrews 6:4-6 had already taught them, they were in danger of living a life out of fellowship with God, depriving themselves of all the blessings they could otherwise have had. Here's a link to the question I answered on that passage.
http://www.gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/does-hebrews-6-deny-osas

[Hope]

Gosh, I really shouldn't chime in here, but, dang it, I cannot resist. I remember being wholly shocked that there was no scripture that simply said, "Ye are saved by faith alone" (I thought sure it was in there), but rather it says we are saved by "grace alone", and as so many have put forth above, there is unequivocally the exhortation to perservere, etc.

I believe that scripture teaches, in a nut shell, "we are saved by grace, through faith, that works itself out in charity." I really do not believe it is either/or, but rather both "faith and works." Yes, conversion is radical, but it is a lifelong process, going "from glory to glory" and since we have been bestowed the gift of free will, we can always choose to get off that glory train.

Hope

[tekton]

(Joh 6:37) All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.(Joh 6:38) For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.(Joh 6:39) And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.(Joh 6:40) And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.(Joh 10:27) My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:(Joh 10:28) And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.(Joh 10:29) My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.(Joh 10:30) I and my Father are one.

(Heb 7:25) Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.(Eph 1:13) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise,(Eph 1:14) Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.(1Pe 1:3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,(1Pe 1:4) To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,(1Pe 1:5) Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.(Jud 1:24) Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,(Jud 1:25) To the only wise God our Savior, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.(2Ti 1:12) For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.(2Pe 3:9) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

[CitySearcher]

...but I know whom I have believed,
and am persuaded that He is able:
to keep that which I committed unto Him, against that Day!

If you say that sins can take away your Salvation, then what purpose was our Saviors' Sacrifice for? Is God going to say to His Son, "well I realize You paid the penalty for ALL sin, but although Billy has loved Us, and believed in us before, he just can't seem to keep away from the strip club. I guess we'd better just write this guy off...." :ohno

We do not understand His Love and Grace and Atonement. If we did, we would not even have this thread.

Deliberate rejection of the Holy Spirit's call to Salvation is the only thing that will keep one from being saved. All else will be judged fairly by God, and I don't think any of us really understand His fairness and security....(IMO)

[rsn]

I just dont believe you can be adopted into the family of God and then unadopted and then adopted and so on. I heard Charles Stanley say Its our job to get saved Its Gods job to keep us saved. I believe if a person continues in there sin and are not convicted of what they are doing, then they most likely werent saved to begin with. To live this life thinking you can lose your salvation at any moment is not how I believe God wants you to live.

[AnotherOldGuy]

Gosh, I really shouldn't chime in here, but, dang it, I cannot resist. I remember being wholly shocked that there was no scripture that simply said, "Ye are saved by faith alone" (I thought sure it was in there), but rather it says we are saved by "grace alone", and as so many have put forth above, there is unequivocally the exhortation to perservere, etc.
I guess you are referring to this verse?

(Eph 2:8) For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

If so, I think you are mis-reading it.

"For by grace" - dative case, the indirect object of the verb phrase. The agent who performs the action. God is under no obligation to save us.

"you have been saved" - perfect passive participle. Literally "you are having been saved". Strange in English but common in Greek. The perfect tense says that it is a completed act - done by someone else.

"through faith" - dia pisteos. This says 'by faith', but there's a difference from the 'by grace'. The dative case gives us the means by which the participle was done. It is by means of God's grace that we are saved. The 'dia pisteos' refers to the entire preceeding phrase. We have been saved by God's grace as the response to our faith.

"Faith alone" - there is no other condition stated, so 'faith alone' is accurate.

"Grace alone" - Of course it's 'grace alone'. God's grace is what saves us. We can't do it. But - He is not motivated to do so until we have entrusted ourselves to Him. Otherwise His grace should just save everyone.




I believe that scripture teaches, in a nut shell, "we are saved by grace, through faith, that works itself out in charity." I really do not believe it is either/or, but rather both "faith and works."
Nope - that is not what scripture teaches. Down a couple of verses:

(Eph 2:10) For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

"We are created in Christ Jesus FOR good works". We are saved first in order to do good works. The works are not a condition for being saved - they are the purpose for which we are saved.



Yes, conversion is radical, but it is a lifelong process, going "from glory to glory" and since we have been bestowed the gift of free will, we can always choose to get off that glory train.
It is not a lifelong process. For those 'in Christ' it is a completed act (perfect tense - you have been saved).

"Gift of free will"? I might call it something else. Where does scripture say that Christians have the "gift of free will"?

"we can always choose to get off that glory train." - that demonstrates the church's poor job of teaching. "To believe" is not an intellectual exercise. "Ask Jesus into your heart" - you won't find that in the bible. "Ask Jesus to save you" - that's not there either.

Scripture does tell us must surrender to Christ. "Pisteuo" - the verb translated as 'believe' - does mean that only in the very strict sense: to have a conviction that results in action. That action is one of faith ('pisteuo' - to believe, 'pistis' - faith). It's actually 'to rely on', 'to entrust onesself to'). In other words - submission and surrender. Once we do that, we have given up our free will - our right to choose.

We may rebel, but we are rebeling against something of which we have no control - IF we have indeed believed. We no longer belong to ourselves.

Think of it like the army used to be. Once in, you were in. You had no control. You did what your superiors told you to do. If you tried to leave during a time of war, you were shot.

Similarly, once you are 'in Christ' - you are in. If you rebel, there is a point at which God will not tolerate insubordination. You won't get kicked out of the "army", but you might get removed from this earth.

[Saved by Grace_06]

Hope

Gosh, I really shouldn't chime in here, but, dang it, I cannot resist. I remember being wholly shocked that there was no scripture that simply said, "Ye are saved by faith alone" (I thought sure it was in there), but rather it says we are saved by "grace alone", and as so many have put forth above, there is unequivocally the exhortation to perservere, etc.

One of the fundamental and essential Christian doctrine is the understanding that we are saved by sola fida (faith alone). "For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law" (Romans 3:28, etc.). Apostle Paul did many great and wonderful things for the Lord, yet he was no more justified than the thief on the cross who did NO works for God. Like Paul, the thief was saved by grace alone, through his faith in Christ alone, and to God's glory alone. We misunderstand grace when suppose that by any good we do, we will secure our salvation.

I believe that scripture teaches, in a nut shell, "we are saved by grace, through faith, that works itself out in charity." I really do not believe it is either/or, but rather both "faith and works."

This is true. As Martin Luther said, "I believe we are saved by a faith that works." True faith will produce works, but in no way does the works merit our salvation. We are not saved because we did and do good. We are saved on the merit of Christ' perfect life and perfect sin sacrifice. Because of what he did, "it is finished." We add nothing to it. As the old hymn note goes: "nothing in my hand I bring, but simply to the cross I cling."

Yes, conversion is radical, but it is a lifelong process, going "from glory to glory" and since we have been bestowed the gift of free will, we can always choose to get off that glory train.


Again you're right! But, you're missing somethings. First, salvation is both "now" and "then." In other words, from the time a person repents and believes, he is born again. And, if a person is born again, he will continue in the process of regeneration, growing from Glory to Glory, by God's grace. Indeed, we work out our salvation with fear and trembling (Phi 2:12), because God is in us both to will and to work for his own good pleasure (Phi 2:13). Also, know this: No one born of God will keep on sinning, because they cannot (1John 3:9). Lastly, a person is not saved by his freewill, but by God's decision (John 1:13, Rom 9:16, John 17:2, etc.). And since this is the case (the case being God that it is God who seeks and saves the lost), he will make sure that those whom he calls, go from justification to glorification (Rom 8:30), without any one dropping out. As a matter of fact, he will put his fear in his people's heart so they will not leave him (Jer 32:40). Lastly, you must understand this great fact. God forgives sins and saves people for his own name's sake (Isa 48:9, 1John 2:12, Eph 4:32, etc), and because he does so, "the Lord will not abandon his people because he wants to uphold his great reputation" (1Sam 12:22).

[AnotherOldGuy]

Saved, you really oughtta use quotes.



Again you're right! But, you're missing somethings. First, salvation is both "now" and "then."
No! You're confusing salvation with sanctification. Salvation is immediate.



And, if a person is born again, he will continue in the process of regeneration.
That is sanctification, not salvation.

[Saved by Grace_06]

Saved, you really oughtta use quotes.

No! You're confusing salvation with sanctification. Salvation is immediate.

That is sanctification, not salvation.


Sanctification is apart of salvation. No one who is born again does not get sanctified. For that reason, the regeneration process (born again) is both now and then. In the same way a person is born and goes from infant to man, the born agian person goes from glory to glory and is changed by the renewing of his mind. It's a both and thing.

Check out the scriptures that deal with salvation. You'll find them written as:

Some saved (Past tense)
Being saved (Present tense)
Will be saved (Future tense)