Once a Sheep Always a Sheep, or Salvation Deficit Disorder?

[Saved by Grace_06]

Amen!! I use to be confused by Calvinism. Not anymore!

What happened...you stop reading your bible?


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[Weirdo4Christ]

I'm having a hard time following your responses to me.

I never said it was our doing at all :idunno

Also, if you want to use a verse our of context, I guess you can, but why would you want to? The knocking on the door verse is about the Church, not the entire human race. Read before and after the verses you mentioned.

What do you disagree with in my posts? I've really hardly written much that anyone could disagree with who believes in faith apart from works. :idunno

I'm not a five point calvinist, by the way so please don't read into my posts. Also, I am fine with not understanding the depths of God -- but I enjoy searching Him and praying to know Him more.

I never said you said that it was our doing. But it was the % thing. (I think that was you, forgive me if it wasn't) So I explained the process with scriptures in my above posts. I know alot of Calvinists believe that God chose us from the beginning to be saved and that nothing we do helps us believe. God draws us to Himself because he elected us. EWe really don't have a choice to be saved. It's already been determined. (That's what I disagree with. Sorry if I wasn't clear. I've been working since 5:30 this morning)

[Weirdo4Christ]

What happened...you stop reading your bible?


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CALVINIX is specially formulated to prevent your brain from absorbing Calvinist and Reformed materials no matter how you may encounter them!

Now with CALVINIX you can...

...go ahead and read John Piper!
...enjoy that book by Spurgeon!
...listen to Alistair Begg without guilt!
...read Ephesians 1 without confusion!
...even attend Westminster Seminary!

And never become a Calvinist!

Better yet, CALVINIX still allows your brain to process and absorb Arminian theology with ease.


CALVINIX creates an invisible barrier around your brain literally dissolving Calvinist theology as it is picked up by your senses, while at the same time enhancing your understanding of Arminianism.

"I can now read Romans 9 without stress!" - Dr. Bob Jones III

"Finally, Spurgeon without guilt!" - Dr. Jack Schaap

"Amazing product! James White, you'll never convince me now!" - Dave Hunt

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I'd like to buy three cases and donate them to the church around the block from me. :heh

[Saved by Grace_06]

Weirdo4Christ

Hey deaf people can be saved too ya know.

:) Thank God for that!

Seriously though,

..."the gospel of Christ... is the power of God unto salvation" (Rom. 1:16).

Finish it..."for everyone who believe, first the Jew and then the Gentile" (Rom 1:16). So then, it is "everyone who believes," right? Good. Now that we have established that? Lets find out who believes by using a parallel passage from Paul's writtings:

"but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God." - 1 Cor 1:23-24

Who believes? The Jews? No. They stumble over the truth. Who then, the Gentiles? Nope! They think its foolish? What's God's inspired answer..."Those who are called, from both the Jew and Greek."

Hebrews 4:12 says, "For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart"

That's true! Thats why those who hear the word and do not repent and trust in Jesus will go to Hell justly.

We are commanded to pray for "all men," says I Timothy 2:1, and verses 3 and 4 tell us, "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour, Who will have ALL MEN to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." We should pray for all men because God our Saviour "will have all men to be saved." So God would have all saved, but some will not be saved. So God's grace may he resisted.

I think it means "all type of men" just from the context alone, e.g., kings, people in high places, and in low ones, etc. But, thats the easy answer. The Longer answer goes into the "Two wills of God" and the disiction between "what God would like to see happen" and "what God actually allows to occur." Both are spoken of as "God's will" in scripture. We can go into this later if you'd like.

I do not believe Christians always do right.

That much is certain. But we should strive hard to be perfect as he is perfect.

John 10:27-29 is not saying that there are those chosen for salvation.

John 10:27-29 made be seen best in light of John 17. Note that Jesus' sheep have been chosen by God the Father and given to God the Son. Also, and this is just for making a quick interesting point, look at John 10:26. Notice Jesus said "you do not believe because you are not part of my flock." He did NOT say "you arent of my flock because you didnt believe" but instead the other way around. Notice that we are not sheep because we believe, but rather we believe because we are sheep, and made so from the foundation of the world.

And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.” John 12:32

You got me here. I dont know how to answer this one, except to say "not all are drawn."

[Saved by Grace_06]

I never said you said that it was our doing. But it was the % thing. (I think that was you, forgive me if it wasn't) So I explained the process with scriptures in my above posts. I know alot of Calvinists believe that God chose us from the beginning to be saved and that nothing we do helps us believe. God draws us to Himself because he elected us. EWe really don't have a choice to be saved. It's already been determined. (That's what I disagree with. Sorry if I wasn't clear. I've been working since 5:30 this morning)

No, thats not what calvinism teaches. Calvinsim, aka the correct exposition of scripture, teaches that "God makes men willing to believe in the day of his power" (Psa 110:3). Translation: God frees us from our self-imposed slavery to sin and shows us the truth. In doing that, we freely choose Christ. If he left us in the state of our nature and unregeneratedness, we could not have choose him, because we would not. And, we would not, because We hated God.

[Saved by Grace_06]

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[Beth O]

What happened...you stop reading your bible?



Wow, just last night during Bible study someone made the comment that at times Calvinists can be quite egotistical since they think there is something very special about them since they were chosen as one of the elect.


Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.


Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.


Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

[Saved by Grace_06]

Wow, just last night during Bible study someone made the comment that at times Calvinists can be quite egotistical since they think there is something very special about them since they were chosen as one of the elect.

Whoa...I'm sorry you had to hear about Calvinism from someone who doesnt understand the doctrines of grace, or the Bible for that matter. There is NOTHING within a person that draws God to them, nor is there anything in a person that causes God to love them. In fact, the opposite is true. There is only in a person all manner of filth and sin that merits God's wrath. God loves us because not because of something in us, but because he is love and he chooses whom he will love. Its that simply. All that said, I'm curious how you think the scriptures you posted conflicts the doctrines of grace (calvinism) in any way.

Lastly, Im still waiting for someone to use scripture alone to address my arguements.

[Beth O]

Whoa...I'm sorry you had to hear about Calvinism from someone who doesnt understand the doctrines of grace, or the Bible for that matter. There is NOTHING within a person that draws God to them, nor is there anything in a person that causes God to love them. In fact, the opposite is true. There is only in a person all manner of filth and sin that merits God's wrath. God loves us because not because of something in us, but because he is love and he chooses whom he will love. Its that simply. All that said, I'm curious how you think the scriptures you posted conflicts the doctrines of grace (calvinism) in any way.

Lastly, Im still waiting for someone to use scripture alone to address my arguements.

Do I have to explain each scripture to you?

We are saved by Faith. We receive Faith by hearing the Word of God. Those that call out to the Lord will be saved. What the scripture is saying is that men/women do need to make a choice. God isn't going to force any one to be saved.

[Teacup]

Wow, just last night during Bible study someone made the comment that at times Calvinists can be quite egotistical since they think there is something very special about them since they were chosen as one of the elect

I dunno Beth. I've heard this said also - but.....when you really thing about it, you could also be very proud of yourself for making such a wise "decision"; you know, smarter than others that don't "choose" salvation.

I don't see anything any more special about me than the next guy....in fact when I pray I plead the case of the unsaved knowing that I deserve God's mercy less than many other sinners I know. It grieves my heart and I don't find any reason to feel pride - it just makes me want to pray all the time for others to be shown the same mercy that I didn't deserve. ysic, DLee