Once a Sheep Always a Sheep, or Salvation Deficit Disorder?

[PickensSlim]

That is very interesting.

If our names are blotted out of the Book of Life when we sin, every person born will be blotted out of the Book of Life, correct?

At the Great White Throne judgment (Rev. 20), where unbelievers are judged, the Book of Life will be empty?

For that matter, won't it mean that at the Bema Seat (where believers are judged), the Book of Life will be empty?



At the Great White throne, none will be saved.
I don't know if the book will be empty. There's a verse that I can't find at the moment where G-d sends Isreal out to a destroy a nation that was sacrificing children "Whom I have declared innocent" I'm still trying to learn e-sword.
If, as many maintain and that I believe, there's an certain age after which sin gets one's name blotted out. Up until then......



The LAMB'S BOOK of LIFE is used at the Beama seat if I'm not mistaken.

Slim

[Emily Ruth]

Slim -might I suggest you use http://www.biblegateway.com to search by keyword for your scriptures.

And I believe the age you are looking for is 12 - which is the age of accountability.

And the reason I was concerned about your statement about 'serious' crime is that in some 'religions' they do call some sins 'mortal' and some just minor sins and they 'work off' their penance for these various crimes.

So -wanted to make sure that you didn't have that thinking going on there.

[psalm84]

Here's an interesting thought; it's sort of my personal idea about salvation. I hope I can explain this well without being accused of heresy. What if many more people are saved than we think? What if simply believing that Jesus was who He claimed to be, rose from the dead, and is going to return are all that is required to be saved?

What more is there? Salvation is a gift, given to men by God when they believe His testimony about His Son. How else could the statement spoken by the Lord "and the gates of hell shall not prevail", be true if the Gospel of our salvation isn't simply believing Jesus is the Son of God and the events told in the Gospels(these events, being His death and resurrectiion) occured?

The popes and the catholic clergy held the truth in unrightiosness for over one thousand years; yet, there must have been people born again during that time. I believe they were saved, because they simply believed in the first advent, death and resurrection of Christ; no matter how much their minds were bogged down with catholic dilution. Do I sound like I am opening a way for heresy? I am trying to make the point that, salvation comes to all who truly believe in Christ. How else can they believe, except by the Holy Spirit?

I go to an independent fundemental baptist church, where we know we're saved; because the Gospel is preached very clearly. But the Lord couldn't have died for only a few million fortunate souls in the 1st, 2nd and 15th-21st centuries: those who had a clear accurate version of the Word of God and the Gospel so clearly preached. No, I believe that "He that believeth on Him is not condemned"(John3:18)

Your thoughts and critisims are appreciated,

Mark

[Donncha]

Slim -might I suggest you use http://www.biblegateway.com to search by keyword for your scriptures.

And I believe the age you are looking for is 12 - which is the age of accountability.

What part of the Bible teaches this?



And the reason I was concerned about your statement about 'serious' crime is that in some 'religions' they do call some sins 'mortal' and some just minor sins and they 'work off' their penance for these various crimes.

The term "mortal sin" is based on Sacred Scripture.

[Robbinson]

Here's an interesting thought; it's sort of my personal idea about salvation. I hope I can explain this well without being accused of heresy. What if many more people are saved than we think? What if simply believing that Jesus was who He claimed to be, rose from the dead, and is going to return are all that is required to be saved?

What more is there? Salvation is a gift, given to men by God when they believe His testimony about His Son. How else could the statement spoken by the Lord "and the gates of hell shall not prevail", be true if the Gospel of our salvation isn't simply believing Jesus is the Son of God and the events told in the Gospels(these events, being His death and resurrectiion) occured?

The popes and the catholic clergy held the truth in unrightiosness for over one thousand years; yet, there must have been people born again during that time. I believe they were saved, because they simply believed in the first advent, death and resurrection of Christ; no matter how much their minds were bogged down with catholic dilution. Do I sound like I am opening a way for heresy? I am trying to make the point that, salvation comes to all who truly believe in Christ. How else can they believe, except by the Holy Spirit?

I go to an independent fundemental baptist church, where we know we're saved; because the Gospel is preached very clearly. But the Lord couldn't have died for only a few million fortunate souls in the 1st, 2nd and 15th-21st centuries: those who had a clear accurate version of the Word of God and the Gospel so clearly preached. No, I believe that "He that believeth on Him is not condemned"(John3:18)

Your thoughts and critisims are appreciated,

Mark

I agree with you. I believe salvation comes exclusively through faith in Jesus Christ - (faith and belief, in our hearts, that He is our savior, died for our sins, and was resurrected and sits on the right hand of the Father). However, scripture tells us that this belief is not possible without the assistance of the Holy Spirit (unless we are born again), and this is an act of grace from God (we do not control the Holy Spirit). I do not know how many are or will be saved. I hope it is millions and millions. We could have a long debate about what causes the Holy Spirit to act (forknowledge by God of those who would choose to accept Him - or pure grace of God based upon a plan we do not fully understand).

When we are saved through faith - works will follow - we become new creatures in Christ and yearn to understand God's Word and follow Jesus' example. This will be evidenced, in part, by our love of one another, as disciples of Christ. Consquently, those who do not evidence this behavior are probably not "saved" (but not because salvation is based on works - but because works will follow from true faith). I do not believe that sacraments play any role in salvation - although there are two sacraments (communion and water baptism) which are scriptural and which we should yearn for as symbols of our faith in the Lord. The Catholic Church has a completely different perspective on this - based largely on tradition, rather than on scripture.


Regards,

[Zack]

The popes and the catholic clergy held the truth in unrightiosness for over one thousand years; yet, there must have been people born again during that time. I believe they were saved, because they simply believed in the first advent, death and resurrection of Christ; no matter how much their minds were bogged down with catholic dilution. Do I sound like I am opening a way for heresy? I am trying to make the point that, salvation comes to all who truly believe in Christ. How else can they believe, except by the Holy Spirit?

I go to an independent fundemental baptist church, where we know we're saved; because the Gospel is preached very clearly. But the Lord couldn't have died for only a few million fortunate souls in the 1st, 2nd and 15th-21st centuries: those who had a clear accurate version of the Word of God and the Gospel so clearly preached. No, I believe that "He that believeth on Him is not condemned"(John3:18)

Your thoughts and critisims are appreciated,

Mark

I ran across a quote the other day that I think is appropriate here:

People have been getting saved right on up through the ages, quietly, regardless of all the maneuverings of the churches.

Faith alone.

[AnotherOldGuy]

What if many more people are saved than we think?
Sadly, I don't think so. I think it will be far fewer than we think.




What if simply believing that Jesus was who He claimed to be, rose from the dead, and is going to return are all that is required to be saved?
That is all that is required - with a caveat. If we use the more accurate meaning of the greek word that is translated 'believe'.



yet, there must have been people born again during that time.
Of course there were.



I am trying to make the point that, salvation comes to all who truly believe in Christ.
There's that word again.



But the Lord couldn't have died for only a few million fortunate souls in the 1st, 2nd and 15th-21st centuries: those who had a clear accurate version of the Word of God and the Gospel so clearly preached.
I might disagree with you about clarity and accuracy over the last 6 centuries.




I believe salvation comes exclusively through faith in Jesus Christ - (faith and belief, in our hearts, that He is our savior, died for our sins, and was resurrected and sits on the right hand of the Father).
You left the THE one word that is needed. But a lot of people will say the same thing as you. I think that from a scriptural standpoint, if someone quotes that response to Jesus, He will say "Depart from me".




faith in the Lord
BINGO! (with caveats)

[scrappergirl]

What if simply believing that Jesus was who He claimed to be, rose from the dead, and is going to return are all that is required to be saved?

even the demons BELIEVE. Since they were there when it all happened...
Yes all it takes is faith, but faith without works is dead. what good is a dead faith?

in any case, if i am wrong, then Praise God for His patience with us, and i'll be happy to see an even bigger banquet in heaven.

[Larry]

I believe there will be MANY less people in Heaven than we think.

Repent, meaning turn from your sins, and TRUST, in what Jesus did on the cross to pay your sin debt.

We all owe a debt we can't pay. Sin has condemned us, so we need a substitute, someone willing and worthy to pay that debt. Jesus took our place, so our debt IS paid, if we trust in what he did.

Merely believing in Jesus will not save anyone. Also, if you don't 'turn' from your sins, it shows Jesus you're not serious, just paying lip service.

If you cheated on your wife or husband, and after every time you did it, you just said you were sorry and asked for forgiveness, but the next week turned right around and did it again, do you think you would/should receive forgiveness?

The problem with the modern gospel, meaning to 'just say the prayer and you're saved' is not Biblical. Nowhere does it say you must 'accept' Jesus as your savior, actually it is him that must accept you.

There MUST be true repentance, (turning from sin) and then trust in Jesus, believing he did what he said he did.

Kirk explains it way better than me.

http://www.wayofthemaster.com/audiolessons.shtml

Larry

[blitzkreig]

An old friend who used to post under the name "LoneWolf" used to say that you would never again fall into error and believe you could lose your salvation ... if you truly understood what saved you in the first place.

He was correct. When one truly understands the process and the scriptural explanation of "why" and not only what appears to us mere mortals of "how"... it is quite an eye opener.

If course it is doctrine and doctrine doesn't actually contribute to one's salvation so it isn't "necessary" to have all figured out. But it is certainly comforting.

What is amazing is so few have given it prayerful thought but are just stuck parroting the presupposition they were brought up in.

But when you come to think of it ... scriptural illumination too comes from that same Holy Spirit who is so intimately involved in Salvation.

So I guess He has His reasons why so few seem to have that part figured in this the last part of this great drama ... the 21st century.

.