View Full Version : Once a Sheep Always a Sheep, or Salvation Deficit Disorder?
Saved by Grace_06
July 3rd, 2007, 09:17 PM
if you renounce God or sin by doing soemthing like a murder, then I think you can become unsaved
How do you understand what you said in relation to 1John 3:9?
"No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God."
One of the marks of a Christian, according to this verse, is that you will not be able to sin habitually because God's seed remains in you. If then God seed abides in a Christian insomuch that he cannot sin habitually, how does a person go from Christian to sinning so much as to become a Non-Christian again?
July 4th, 2007, 09:22 AM
You cannot lose salvation once obtained, but there are many who do not have the assurance of salvation.
In other words those who are saved will have evidence of the Holy Spirit working in their lives and they bear fruit and share faith ect.
Others who think they have accepted Jesus through a sinners prayer and just go on about their life as if it never happened or live questionable lifestyle once "receiving Jesus" may not truly be saved.
Those who are saved cannot lose it though :)
July 4th, 2007, 12:00 PM
Some people don't believe Jesus in their hearts, only in their minds.
Saved by Grace_06
July 4th, 2007, 12:02 PM
What wasn't a "dummy" statement at all!
July 4th, 2007, 12:41 PM
"John 6:39 says that the Son will lose none of those the Father has given Him. John 10:29 says no one can snatch us out of the father's hand. Romans 8:38-39 says that nothing can separate the believer from the love of God. Neither John nor Paul exempt ourselves from this promise.
2 Cor. 1:21-22 is perhaps the clearest. It says, "Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come
There is not even the slightest hint anywhere in Scripture that the Holy Spirit can be unsealed and the guarantee voided, by God or anyone else. We are either forever saved or we were never saved. http://www.gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/osas-another-look
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory. (Ephesians 1:13-14)
The word translated "deposit" is a legal term. Today we would say Earnest Money. It's a down payment that constitutes a legal obligation to follow through with the purchase. If you've ever bought any Real Estate, you're familiar with the term. If not, here's another example. It's like we've been put on "lay away." The price has been paid and we've been taken off the display shelf until the one who has purchased us returns to claim us. In the mean time we cannot be bought by anyone else, because we legally belong to the one who has paid the deposit. "You are not your own," we're told. "You were bought with a price." (1 Cor. 6:19-20)
Paul made it even clearer when he repeated this incredible promise in 2 Cor. 1:21-22. Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.
This time He removed all doubt as to just Who it is that keeps us saved. Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. What could be clearer?" :yay
July 4th, 2007, 11:24 PM
Because the Bible basically tells us "It aint over till its over..."
Obviously that isn't a direct quote. But it is the truth.
Before Jesus died, he said "It is finished". He paid the price. If we believe, we are saved. To say that a Christian can lose his salvation is to say that Christ's sacrificial death on the cross was not enough. In addition, the reasons given for one losing his salvation are always works-based, which is contrary to Scripture. What does Jesus say? "...well, this person has sinned X-number of times and this person has committed this particular sin and this person has told one too many lies, so the blood I shed on Calvary isn't sufficient to save them. I'm going to have to unsave them." ALL of our righteousness are as filthy rags to God. That's how pathetic we are, even the most righteous among us. That's where His mercy and grace comes into play.
July 6th, 2007, 02:13 AM
It is hard to let go of a works mentality.
Prov. 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
It seems right to earn your salvation and it is hard to let go of that way of thinking.
True. Also, my mom used to cling to the idea that we can lose our salvation for many years because she saw some people who believed in eternal security who did not live like they had that security. Therefore, she felt that the doctrine of eternal security was a license to sin. So I think that is also one of the reasons that at least some people cling to that idea. But, for those of us who truly do have that security (which is really just the Holy Spirit Himself - See Ephesians 4:30), it is that very security which keeps us from sin in the first place.
So, to say that eternal security is a license to sin is like saying that the Holy Spirit is a license to sin, when in fact, it is the Holy Spirit that keeps us from sin in the first place. But thanks to God, my mom no longer clings to that idea now that her eyes have been opened to the position that believers have in Christ.
July 6th, 2007, 05:27 PM
I believe the Bible teaches that we can let go of our salvation. If you do not know anyone who has walked away from God-then you haven't been around long enough. Don't let the OSAS folk fool you. If you do not want to be a Christian-then even if you said some prayer once-you don't have to be.
July 6th, 2007, 06:51 PM
There is a lot of talk amongst the threads posted speaking of OSAS (which is a new term to me) and it seems that some are on the fence about the idea of a person losing their salvation. To be honest it makes me insecure about my own eternal destination because I am one of those that was on fire for the Lord at one time in my life and now I am working very hard to get that back. I don't feel like I have the zeal that I once had, and with that, I feel like I might be one of those whose heart has hardened over time. I listened to James McDonald speak of this topic with references to Hebrews and it made me think that I won't be able to obtain my salvation due to the fact that I had walked away and refused the Holy Spirit for a time. I am not sure what to think of all this. Maybe I am being deceived and satan is telling me that I am not saved. What do you think?
July 6th, 2007, 07:09 PM
Hebrews 6, The Letter to the Hebrews is God's bridge from the Old Covenant to the New. It was written to Jews who had converted to Christianity and were under intense pressure to go back under the Law. Everything in the letter has to be read from that perspective.
Here's a couple of good short commentary on the subject of OSAS. Hope they help you out. :hug
PS. yes, it is satan that is trying to steal your joy by getting you to doubt your salvation. Draw close to the Lord by prayer and being regularly in His word and the evil one will flee from you. Another :hug
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