View Full Version : Once a Sheep Always a Sheep, or Salvation Deficit Disorder?
July 29th, 2007, 10:56 PM
Re: struggles with condemnation
I do know Catholics that struggle with that as well ... especially folks that were raised pre-Vatican II it seems.
Why would pre-Vatican II Catholics struggle with it more than post-Vatican II Catholics?
July 30th, 2007, 06:00 AM
I don't know, Pre-Vatican II was before my time. Maybe things were getting a tad stale and needed a "refreshment" course. (Just a guess). I know those that LOVE the Latin mass and think things are way too contemporary as they are now.
When I first attended the parish I go to now, the music was rich, robust, and Christ-centered, and the sermon was about "knowing Jesus, personally and intimately." It was really rather evangelical. I have attended several parishes like this. In fact most of the parishes I have visited have been like this. We actually felt a lot more at home even in the beginning, than we did in some other churches we visited. I could write a book about some of the goofy places we visited. .... way off the beaten path.
So, anyway, that's been my experience.
August 7th, 2007, 12:01 PM
Okay help me out here. I used to believe in the "Once Saved Always Saved" doctrine but then I started going to an AOG church and the pastor there told me it was possible for a person to lose their salvation through backslidding & sin -- but of course that person could repent and return to the Lord. My other problem (or stumbling block with OSAS) is the lukewarm Christian. Are they saved? Were they ever saved? Jesus said he vomits them out of his mouth...they make Him sick. I know my thoughts are all over the place here, but if you could help me out particularly with the lukewarm Christian...I'm really confused by that. Are they saved? What is lukewarm, how do you know if you're lukewarm anyway? In this sinful world if you just mention "Jesus" you're thought to me a radical Christian, but what is lukewarm to God? :scratch
August 7th, 2007, 12:21 PM
Backsliding is one thing. Losing your salvation is quite another.
Ask your Pastor this question... "Which sins of yours was Jesus' sacrifice unable to atone for?" Remember, all of your sins were yet future when He died for us.
August 7th, 2007, 12:32 PM
Once you are saved you are saved.
“that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes to righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made to salvation." (Romans 10:9-10)
"In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory." (Ephesians 1:13)
God is merciful. Through forgiveness, He completely separates our sins from us and He no longer holds them against us.
"As far as the east is from the west, So far has He removed our transgressions from us." (Psalms 103:12)
Sinning as a Christian does not lead us back to square one, being lost and condemned. Sin breaks fellowship with the Lord. Backsliding into sin, laziness in Kingdom work, etc. will cause us to be less useful to God and may cause Him to place us under some discipline (discipline and punishment are not the same thing). The Holy Spirit convicts us of these things. We may find that the Lord has "put us on a shelf" for a while so as to learn whatever it is we are lacking. But this in no way means we are not saved. It's just one of the struggles we will all have in this life, fighting this flesh.
I know hearing preaching from the pulpit can be so convincing, even sometimes when it is wrong. The best thing to do is rely on the word of God and remember that even pastors are still learning and growing, and sometimes don't have it right and all figured out. Dig deep into Scripture for your assurance. Romans is a great book to immerse yourself in.
August 7th, 2007, 12:57 PM
Ahh thanks you guys!
August 7th, 2007, 01:16 PM
Another thing to ask your pastor is for him to exegete Rom 8:29-30.
Rom 8:29For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. If a person was once saved are were they justified? If they were justified according to that verse what is the next thing that happens. They are glorified. So then how can a person who was once saved and justified ever lose their salvation if that scripture says that if they are justified they WILL be glorified?
John 6:37All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."
Ask him about them bolded section of the verses above? What is the Fathers will? That all whom He gives to Son will not be lost that they WILL be raised up on the last day.
August 7th, 2007, 02:08 PM
Thank you everyone!
I don't see that pastor anymore, I don't go to that church...but what he said stuck in my head. He gave me a verse....something about blotting them out of the book?? Does that sound familar to anyone...I want to say its in Hebrews or Revelation. I'm going to try to find it.
August 7th, 2007, 02:52 PM
I don't understand why most charismatics believe they can lose their salvation.
But a lot also believe gifts of the spirit are proof of salvation.
There is a charismatic counterfeit spirit that leads many astray.
And a big difference between being Charismatic and Charismaniac.
August 7th, 2007, 03:04 PM
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that HolySpirit of promise Eph. 1:13
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption Eph. 4:30
No man can remove God's seal. :thumb
This reminds me...I was reading today in Revelation 5.
John CRIED because no one..NO ONE.. could open the scroll or lose the 7 seals except Jesus.
This was in Heaven...archangels..Moses..Elijah..David..some very powerful beings up there..yet no one could remove the 7 seals to the scroll except Jesus.:yeah
5:4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
"sealed unto the day of redemption"!!!!:thumb
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