Once a Sheep Always a Sheep, or Salvation Deficit Disorder?

[Chris]

SPOKENWORD,
I think this article below might be very beneficial to you in that there are 2 aspects to our relationship with the Lord. One is called "unity" and one is called "fellowship" and they are two different things. Please read the following article. :) But once someone is born again, they can't lose their salvation, they might be out of fellowship, but they are still in unity. Failure to understand the difference between the two is why there are disagreements on the issue of OSAS. :)

http://www.gracethrufaith.com/selah/eternal-security/osas-the-whole-story

[GreenEyedLady]

Can one lose their salvation?:scratch

I used to ponder this also. But God helped me.
This is kind of a gross example, but I promise, it is biblical.
It is about circumcision. Now, Abraham circumcised his children and that was their covenant between God and his children. This is what "separated" them from the others who walked the earth.
Never were the men able to replace or change the fact that they were physically circumsied.

We are spiritually circumcised with the Holy Spirit.
Colossians 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

If there is no way to replace or chance a physical circumcision, then how could there be a way to replace a spiritual circumcision GOD did? He separeted the FLESH just like the jews did physically. This is what makes us brothers and sisters in Christ. This is how we are literally grafted in.
You can't choose to put that physical circumcision back on no more than you can choose to put the spiritual one on. Its impossible.


That is how I have looked at it after studying long enough:wave

[Harley]

IF you OVERCOME and endure until the end your name will not be blotted out.Jesus words are clear.Matt.24;13 confirms it. I also wanted to add that God did the same in Ex.32;33.

Bringing up Matthew 24:13 adds some questions to the mix. Jesus said "But the one who endures to the end will be saved."

Q - The "end" of what?
Q - The phrase starts with a contrast, so what's the immediate context?
Q - What does Jesus mean by "saved" - the word has a range of meanings and it's the context that determines which is meant
Q - "shall be" is future tense, if this is a salvation question does that mean no one is really saved until they endure? If endurance is a requirement is it really a gift? Is salvation present tense of future tense?

Obviously, when these questions are answered it becomes apparent that Jesus was describing an event, a particular time. To make this into a verse that describes the salvation process for believers is foreign to the context.

As for overcomers - it's a poetic term that is synonymous with the believer. All those you are saved, born-again, sealed, Christian... however you describe it - those are the overcomers.

[humblebleu]

I posted the exact same thread when I joined this board. I used the exact same scripture to justify my belief that one could lose their salvation. Upon further study I realize that you CANNOT lose your salvation.

[SPOKENWORD]

Why dispute the Word of God....

When Jesus said.................NOTHING can snatch you from His palm... because the Father gave you to Him.................. that NOTHING means... satan, your corrupted human ways, YOU, your friends, your family.......... NOTHING means NOTHING.Jesus never said you cannot walk away.We are not robots we all still have a free will.Look what happened to 1/3 0f the angels. They were Gods creation and they chose to walk away.:scratch

[SPOKENWORD]

Bringing up Matthew 24:13 adds some questions to the mix. Jesus said "But the one who endures to the end will be saved."

Q - The "end" of what?
Q - The phrase starts with a contrast, so what's the immediate context?
Q - What does Jesus mean by "saved" - the word has a range of meanings and it's the context that determines which is meant
Q - "shall be" is future tense, if this is a salvation question does that mean no one is really saved until they endure? If endurance is a requirement is it really a gift? Is salvation present tense of future tense?

Obviously, when these questions are answered it becomes apparent that Jesus was describing an event, a particular time. To make this into a verse that describes the salvation process for believers is foreign to the context.

As for overcomers - it's a poetic term that is synonymous with the believer. All those you are saved, born-again, sealed, Christian... however you describe it - those are the overcomers.Endure until we take our last breath or until the rapture whichever comes first. St. Paul said we are all in a personal race and only upon completion
we get the prize.

[Galoutofdixie]

Jesus never said you cannot walk away.We are not robots we all still have a free will.Look what happened to 1/3 0f the angels. They were Gods creation and they chose to walk away.:scratch

Yes, the angels are God's creation but... Salvation is for humans. We are sealed with the Holy Spirit of God at the moment of salvation. He dwells inside of us. I see no where in scripture where there is a remedy for sin for anyone other than humans? I think that is why salvation is not available to Fallen Angels.

This is only my understanding and is open to change if anyone can show me scripture where it says that Salvation from sin is for anyone other than the human race. :scratch

[SPOKENWORD]

Yes, the angels are God's creation but... Salvation is for humans. We are sealed with the Holy Spirit of God at the moment of salvation. He dwells inside of us. I see no where in scripture where there is a remedy for sin for anyone other than humans? I think that is why salvation is not available to Fallen Angels.

This is only my understanding and is open to change if anyone can show me scripture where it says that Salvation from sin is for anyone other than the human race. :scratchTwo thirds of the Holy Angels made a decission to follow God. God also gave them a free will.

[Galoutofdixie]

Not disputing free will, just disputing the idea of loosing one's salvation. :) The angels are never offered the "Gift of Salvation".

Jhn 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.

I think where His words say "any man", that means you as well. :nod

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

[Harley]

Jesus never said you cannot walk away.We are not robots we all still have a free will.Look what happened to 1/3 0f the angels. They were Gods creation and they chose to walk away.:scratch

Since this is an argument from silence, and since this position means that in Romans 8 Paul really didn't mean "any created thing" when he wrote "any created thing" - I'll reject the argument.

As for the 1/3 - true... but moot.