Once a Sheep Always a Sheep, or Salvation Deficit Disorder?

[A Berean]

Once Saved Always Saved has the implication that

a) if you ask Jesus into your heart

+b) get baptised

+c) become indwelt with the HS

= you cannot go to hell.

I don't believe this to be wholly true.

What about those who do a, b, & c...then for one reason or another rejects God afterward? Were they never saved in the first place? Or do they still have their names written in the book of life?

I don't mean that if one does a, b, & c then commits sin they will be blotted out of the book...This is not a thing one does in rejection of Jesus. Jesus is a forgiving God. He will forgive, and not cast someone away for a sin or sins commited after salvation...

c- being indwelt by the H.S., Jesus can never reject Himself, nor deny Himself. If a person is indwelt by the H.S., they are saved and sealed! OSAS

[magnum_the_logical]

Here's a good commentary on Hebrews 6, from Jack Kelley's website:

I am not going to debate this one as I am not sure. If I felt I was I would debate. I do have a question.

I know I have been saved. I was saved when I was 28. I receivedt he holy spirit and even received the sign of the gifts of tongues. "Boy I hope that does not stir up a battle"

Now, at this time I am not acting as a christian in many ways. I will not harm you but I am in a battle with my faith. I swear and I have a bad temper. All of this is due to a life event that occured about 3 years ago.

If I died tonight I am not sure where I would go. If you asked me I would say I am toast. That is me judging myself.

So, what say you? There is no doubt in my mind I have been saved so any statement I was not really saved I cannot accept. I won many to christ over the years and I have done much work for him. Thus I know I have been saved.

So what say you? Have I lost my salvation? If I died with the issues I have where would I go?

I am asking in a geniuine manner. I am not sure and I just want to know what you guys think

[The Learner]

I am not going to debate this one as I am not sure. If I felt I was I would debate. I do have a question.

I know I have been saved. I was saved when I was 28. I receivedt he holy spirit and even received the sign of the gifts of tongues. "Boy I hope that does not stir up a battle"

Now, at this time I am not acting as a christian in many ways. I will not harm you but I am in a battle with my faith. I swear and I have a bad temper. All of this is due to a life event that occured about 3 years ago.

If I died tonight I am not sure where I would go. If you asked me I would say I am toast. That is me judging myself.

So, what say you? There is no doubt in my mind I have been saved so any statement I was not really saved I cannot accept. I won many to christ over the years and I have done much work for him. Thus I know I have been saved.

So what say you? Have I lost my salvation? If I died with the issues I have where would I go?

I am asking in a geniuine manner. I am not sure and I just want to know what you guys think


I have to answer your question with a question:

Do you trust in the death and resurrection of Jesus the Messiah as being payment for your sins? Is your eternal destiny secure based on what He did or what you do?

[ATYCLB]

I am not going to debate this one as I am not sure. If I felt I was I would debate. I do have a question.

I know I have been saved. I was saved when I was 28. I receivedt he holy spirit and even received the sign of the gifts of tongues. "Boy I hope that does not stir up a battle"

Now, at this time I am not acting as a christian in many ways. I will not harm you but I am in a battle with my faith. I swear and I have a bad temper. All of this is due to a life event that occured about 3 years ago.

If I died tonight I am not sure where I would go. If you asked me I would say I am toast. That is me judging myself.

So, what say you? There is no doubt in my mind I have been saved so any statement I was not really saved I cannot accept. I won many to christ over the years and I have done much work for him. Thus I know I have been saved.

So what say you? Have I lost my salvation? If I died with the issues I have where would I go?

I am asking in a geniuine manner. I am not sure and I just want to know what you guys think

Don't worry about what we think.

This is between you and Him.

The Learner has given you two excellent questions to reflect upon
and pray over.

:hug

[Whitecorvette]

I was saved about 10 years ago. Then I returned to my sinful ways and took advantage of women. I was only after sex. January 2, 2007 God took away my beautiful fiance and my job. Being all alone, I spent about a month praying, crying, reading the bible. It's been 10 months but I know God is still working on me and will soon reveal his plans for me. My point is He is the One who brought me back to Him. If He had not taken away things that were most important to me, I would be my sinful self. I know He knows that my white corvette is my pride and joy. He wants that too and I will gratefully give it to Him!

[Cd4u_2]

Once Saved Always Saved has the implication that

a) if you ask Jesus into your heart

+b) get baptised

+c) become indwelt with the HS

= you cannot go to hell.

I don't believe this to be wholly true.

What about those who do a, b, & c...then for one reason or another rejects God afterward? Were they never saved in the first place? Or do they still have their names written in the book of life?

I don't mean that if one does a, b, & c then commits sin they will be blotted out of the book...This is not a thing one does in rejection of Jesus. Jesus is a forgiving God. He will forgive, and not cast someone away for a sin or sins commited after salvation...


Getting baptize is suppose to be a sign of being willing to obey or submit to the Lord . When the Lord asked you to be baptized in his name, the first thing you do after being saved is obey him... which is baptize. Baptism is suppose to be a picture of Christ washing your sins away.

It has nothing to do with salvation.

[KitsapGirl]

Getting baptistize is suppose to be a sign of being willing to obey or submit to the Lord. And a picture of Christ washing your sins away.

It has nothing to do with salvation.


This is part of my point. I have witnessed many people who "get saved". They go through the motions, even speak in tongues then months or years later refuse to have anything to do with God, even cursing Him, the church or Christians. It's heartbreaking.

What I hear about situations like this is that either they were never saved in the first place...or they are still written in the book of life & going to heaven. I don't think so.

It's like a marriage that turns sour. If one party decides to leave the other, does that mean they were never really married in the first place? Of course not. Are they still married even with the paperwork filed? I dunno.

Again it's the heart that matters...

[goinghome]

Kitsap, I sort of understand what you're saying, but I think that falls under the ORSAS posting of mine above. I think anybody who could turn away from God, was never spirit filled, and couldn't have been saved to begin with.

The book of Job demonstrates that when God says you're righteous, you're righteous, and nothing can fully turn you away from your father in Heaven. Even the devil pounding your entire life into the dust (like he did to Job) would never turn you away from Jesus if you're truly sealed and God has declared your righteousness. The devil continues to this day to try to play the Job trick on us and on God. Still calling God a liar. God isn't stupid like satan thinks He is. When God declares somebody is sealed in Christ, it's because God has explored the depths of that person's heart, and in spite of faults, He already knows that person is willing to let God give him/her the faith necessary to get through ANYTHING with His grace.

You can look around and see evidence of this. The person who served God with all her heart, and one of her children dies in a horrible accident; she may get emotional and even angry, but she never turns from the Lord. Or the guy who claims to be saved, but when his car gets a dent in it he shoots somebody over it and curses God for allowing him to go to prison. Laughable, but this stuff really happens.

[magnum_the_logical]

I have to answer your question with a question:

Do you trust in the death and resurrection of Jesus the Messiah as being payment for your sins? Is your eternal destiny secure based on what He did or what you do?

Well, this is my dilema. You see, I have a penetcostal background. Now don't stray down the snake handling path "We only did that in closed services :dance2" Seriously though, in the penetcostal teachings one can lose their salvation or at least that is what I always got out of it. It was due to the scriptutre that was used at the begining of this post.

Now personally, I have always thought God required a person to be diligent, not sin and be a light unto the world. At times during my life since I was saved I have been just that but at other times, and now for 2 years running, I have been everything but that.

So, here is my view. I know Jesus is the messiah, I know he was born of a virgin, I know he was created in Mary's womb by the spirit of God, I know he was baptised in the Jordan river and that the holy spirit decended upon him. I know he healed, restored life to the dead and taught tha absoloute truth. I know he was nailed to a tree, although I am convinced it was on Thursday not Friday, and I am certain he died on that tree. I am also certain he rose and lives and will return one day.

But, I also feel he requires much. Thus I feel unworthy and sinful. My heart is not where it once was and my actions are not that of a true christian.

That is honesty, it does not matter to me what you think of me. I do want to know how you see this in a once saved always saved sense.

Now I am not looking for a free pass to continue on the path I am on. If I do, I fully expect to pay the price. I am working on it and all I can say is right now the jury is still out. I am not sure if I can ever get back to where I once was let alone grow past where I have once been.

I just want to hear your views. All of your views. If any think I need some asbestos underwear then say so. I can take it. I feel I do so hey we will be in agreement.

Maybe I am wrong and once saved always saved is right and I will make it. I just do not know, I just do not know

[Chris]

Yes, OSAS is sound and biblical. :) Here is a treasure trove of good articles on OSAS. :)

http://www.gracethrufaith.com/search?SearchableText=OSAS&SUBMIT.x=13&SUBMIT.y=15