Once a Sheep Always a Sheep, or Salvation Deficit Disorder?

[A Berean]

I feel compelled to point out that I agree with you for a change.

:heh

:lol2

[A Berean]

PS- I agree too.

[goinghome]

Well, this is my dilema. You see, I have a penetcostal background. Now don't stray down the snake handling path "We only did that in closed services :dance2" Seriously though, in the penetcostal teachings one can lose their salvation or at least that is what I always got out of it. It was due to the scriptutre that was used at the begining of this post.

Now personally, I have always thought God required a person to be diligent, not sin and be a light unto the world. At times during my life since I was saved I have been just that but at other times, and now for 2 years running, I have been everything but that.

So, here is my view. I know Jesus is the messiah, I know he was born of a virgin, I know he was created in Mary's womb by the spirit of God, I know he was baptised in the Jordan river and that the holy spirit decended upon him. I know he healed, restored life to the dead and taught tha absoloute truth. I know he was nailed to a tree, although I am convinced it was on Thursday not Friday, and I am certain he died on that tree. I am also certain he rose and lives and will return one day.

But, I also feel he requires much. Thus I feel unworthy and sinful. My heart is not where it once was and my actions are not that of a true christian.

That is honesty, it does not matter to me what you think of me. I do want to know how you see this in a once saved always saved sense.

Now I am not looking for a free pass to continue on the path I am on. If I do, I fully expect to pay the price. I am working on it and all I can say is right now the jury is still out. I am not sure if I can ever get back to where I once was let alone grow past where I have once been.

I just want to hear your views. All of your views. If any think I need some asbestos underwear then say so. I can take it. I feel I do so hey we will be in agreement.

Maybe I am wrong and once saved always saved is right and I will make it. I just do not know, I just do not know



Magnum, I understand where you're coming from on this. I think you have experienced salvation but have not yet gone through sanctification. That's the process where God removes sin from your life and fills you with the Holy Spirit. When we accept our salvation, we're also taking it on faith that God will complete the work He started in us. There will come a time in your life when you WANT to turn over every part of your life to Him, and that's when you'll start noticing changes in yourself. He's working on you now, but you probably can't see it very plainly. When the apostles were waiting for the infilling of the Holy Spirit (I think it was 40 days) they were saved, but also still trying to do things through their own power. Then the Lord filled them with the HS and they began to show signs and wonders (fruitfulness) in their lives. For me, it took me getting what I thought I wanted, miraculous career success, money, a great place to live, the good life so to speak, before I realized the only reason I wanted any material success at all was so that I could give to other people and help them know Him. The success was empty without the purified motives deep in my heart. Only then did God start holding me under the fire and growing some fruit in me. He has completely changed me without any effort of my own, all I did was obey Him. You've probably heard people say, "don't ever ask God for patience", halfway joking. Well, when you ask God to take over, He will. At first it will be painful as He burns the dross from your life, then it will be wonderful. Keep your eyes on Him and your faith will be renewed.

p.s. being filled with the HS has nothing to do with tongues (for some it may, for most it doesn't). Being sealed by the HS and being filled (becoming fruitful) are separate things. I'm sure I'm about to get slammed now.....:fear

[ATYCLB]

I feel compelled to point out that I agree with you for a change.

:heh

:shocked

We must be close. :rapture

[Saved by Grace_06]

I feel compelled to point out that I agree with you for a change.

:heh

Praise God, brother! I hope this will not be the last time.

[LaMontre]

I have seen allot of argument involving Predestination, and I have my own brand of that doctrine that balances choice and destiny rather well.

What is also often debated here is Eternal Security (also refered to as OSAS).

My question then is this: Can we hold to eternal security, and not take on SOME form of predestinational doctrine?

After all, if it is true that once we believe we are eternally secure, then does that not indicate that, at the very least, once we believe we are predestined (or at least incontrovertibly destined) for glory??

I won't limit the thread, as I enjoy discussion and this place is gettin kinda boring lately. :hehee

What could be more exciting than a thread that covers two of the most hotly debated issues on the board?

Maybe someone could work evolution into this somehow? :fear

:thumb

[Saved by Grace_06]

My question then is this: Can we hold to eternal security, and not take on SOME form of predestinational doctrine?

Yes. Many people here hold to the Biblical doctrine of Eternal Security, without adhering to Calvinism.

[BlessedinHim]

I was just reading in Ecclesiastes, let me get that verse up here.


Ecclesiastes 3:15
That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past.


Since God is outside of the time He created for us, I believe He already knows the beginning to the end and therefore He knows who are His by the end of our alloted created time dimension. He knows it and so he ordains it to be, therefore, to foreordain from foreknowledge. He manipulates all of us down here according to what is in our hearts, therefore working all things to good for those who love the Lord. As he did pharoah, He knew what was in pharoahs heart and used it to work things to the good for His chosen people Israel.

this isnt all inclusive of what I think, but a brief overview.

it really doesnt matter what I think, (usually smoke follows out of my ears, LOL,) but what the Word says above all.

oh, guess I could say something about OSAS, I think once we are really His, nothing can pluck us out.

[Mentat]

The farmer sows the word, means that it is preached. The seed where the word is sown is people who hear it with their ears, but not their hearts, thus satan can take it (they forget or pay minimal attention to it). Others hear, get mentally interested, get excited about it, but it didn't go to their hearts and change them (head knowledge). Others hear, get it mentally, start taking it to heart, even start acting on it, but on some level decide the loss of their favorite sins is too great for them, they're in love with the world more than they are God. The seed planted on good soil represents the person who hears, understands, let's it penetrate him to the core, repents (changes his mind about the world and sin) and becomes a Spirit filled believer.

What Jesus is saying here is that not everybody who hears and appears to believe, truly believes. It usually becomes evident over time or during trials who truly has the Word rooted in them. That's why we're not to judge another's salvation status. We can't always tell by people's actions whether the root is fake or real (head knowledge or to the core of our being).

Well said. Superficial and self-centered desire to be a part of the church, but the soil (heart) is un-penetrated.

[goinghome]

I've never understood this argument. If we know that God already knows everything, then He can predestine us while still allowing us to choose. And revival comes from obedience, not from any man made doctrine. Nobody is predestined to hell, all have a choice. But because the movie of your life has already been played in God's theater, He has the right to put His hand on certain ones who, by only His knowledge, have already chosen Him, so therefore He pre-chose them before they chose Him. What's the big deal? :idunno We keep trying to cram this into our understanding of time and presence. It's like the Trinity, we don't get the details of it, but we know how it works enough to believe it.