Purgatory? "outer darkness"? Heaven or Hell ?

[cheymat]

I just got finished reading Charles Stanley's book Eternal Security and in one Chapter of the book he describes the "outer darkness" in Mat 25:30 which reads- And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


To be in the "outer darkness" is to be in the kingdom of God, but outside the circle of men and women whose faithfulness on this earth earned them a special rank or position of authority. (pg 127)

Now this of course is the parable of the Unfaithful servant. However i have always believed that this is a description of Hell because of the "outer darkness and weeping and gnashing of teeth" part. He cites other verses in reference to this as well. Such as Mat 8:12 & Mat 22:13

and he goes on to say that


The reason there will be gnashing of teeth by those who find themselves in this position becomes obvious once we eliminate some confusion over the phrase "gnashing of teeth." This figure of speech does not symbolize pain as many have thought.

And he cites Acts 7:54 to back up his claim.

Now I believe in OSAS and of course this book is a book that is for it, and truth be told it makes ALOT of sense. But this is the first time ive ever heard "outer darkness and weeping and gnashing of teeth" explained like this. Has anyone else? Or did i just not pay any attention when this was being taught to me at some point? :hehee

[acceptedintheBeloved]

If I recall rightly, it is my understanding that Stanley applies this verse (Matthew 25:30, and others like it - Matthew 8:11-12; Matthew 22:13 [See Matthew 22:1-13NASB]; Matthew 24:51; Luke 13:28-29) to the Church, but it doesn't apply there. It applies to Israel (in relation to the millennial kingdom, at Christ's Second Coming; the "wedding feast" occurs at that time).


To be in the "outer darkness" is to be in the kingdom of God, but outside the circle of men and women whose faithfulness on this earth earned them a special rank or position of authority. (pg 127) - Stanley

While I believe in eternal security for all believers who have trusted Christ's finished work alone, for salvation (and would likely agree with him there), I disagree with his viewpoint that any member of the Church will be "cast... into outer darkness... weeping and gnashing of teeth" (whatever that may ultimately prove to be).

This verse (and ones like it) are not to be applied to the Church at all (and that goes for all of Matthew 24-25). I know that doesn't answer your question, but I just wanted to mention that. Hope that makes sense. :hat

[Caveman]

Just finished a study on Hebrews and as Chuck Missler puts it:

You can't lose your salvation but you can lose your inheritance...

“The Darkness Outside”
“...outer darkness...”: to. sko,toj to., evxw,teron, “the darkness outside.”
Unfaithful servants are saved by grace, but are not positively rewarded
for unfaithfulness. Those in “the darkness outside” have lost their reward
of inheritance in the Millennial Kingdom (to presume that this refers to
Hades is an illegitimate connotative transfer; cf. J. Dillow, G.H. Ladd,
Erwin Lutzer, A.E. Wilson, et al.).

And cast ye the unprofitable servant into
outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 25:26-28

Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize?
So run, that ye may obtain. And every man that striveth for the mastery
is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown;
but we an incorruptible. I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight
I, not as one that beateth the air: But I keep under my body, and bring it
into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I
myself should be a castaway.
1 Corinthians 9:24-27

[acceptedintheBeloved]

That is the viewpoint that I disagree with.

When the "outer darkness" and "weeping and gnashing of teeth"-type verses (which I listed in my post, above) are studied in context, it reveals that this is not referring to the fate of the Church-age believer. Covenant Theology seeks to blur these distinctions.

I do, however, believe that we can gain or lose reward... (1 Corinthians 3:10-15; 1 Corinthians 9:24-27; Colossians 2:18, etc.) :hat



Ephesians 1:11-12 (of the Church, who has been "blessed with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places IN CHRIST")


Ephesians 1:11-12

11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

Colossians 1:12-13


Colossians 1:12-13

12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:



Matthew 22:1-13NASB (the "wedding feast", which takes place at His Second Coming, and on the earth)


Matthew 22:1-13NASB

Parable of the Marriage Feast

1 Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying,

2 "The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who gave a wedding feast for his son.

3 "And he sent out his slaves to call those who had been invited to the wedding feast, and they were unwilling to come.

4 "Again he sent out other slaves saying, 'Tell those who have been invited, "Behold, I have prepared my dinner; my oxen and my fattened livestock are all butchered and everything is ready; come to the wedding feast."'

5 "But they paid no attention and went their way, one to his own farm, another to his business,

6 and the rest seized his slaves and mistreated them and killed them.

7 "But the king was enraged, and he sent his armies and destroyed those murderers and set their city on fire.

8 "Then he said to his slaves, 'The wedding is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy.

9 'Go therefore to the main highways, and as many as you find there, invite to the wedding feast.'

10 "Those slaves went out into the streets and gathered together all they found, both evil and good; and the wedding hall was filled with dinner guests.

11 "But when the king came in to look over the dinner guests, he saw a man [guest] there who was not dressed in wedding clothes,

12 and he said to him, 'Friend, how did you come in here without wedding clothes?' And the man was speechless.

13 "Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'

We, the Church, are not the "dinner guests".

[Hootmon]

'Outer darkenss' is a euphemism for 'beyond the light/heat of the fire'.
I wouldnt read too much into it as far as doctrine goes.

[linda]

Isn't the term "outer darkness" a place that Mormans believe an excommunicated member is supposedly sent after death?

[IMSAVED]

Like my pastor once said " This is the closest to Hell that the believers will get and this is the closest the Heaven that the none believers will get"

[Saved Alone by Jesus]

Jesus said all of our tears will be gone, all pain and suffering, we will have no more sorrow.

So how can this be true? Otherwise we might as well have a Catholic Purgatory in place?

No I don't like this analogy at all coming from him, sadly. :(

I like Charles Stanley too but it concerns me that he addresses it like that???

[librarylady45]

Chuck and Nancy Missler, in their book: The Kingdom, Power and Glory: The Overcomer's Handbook explain about the outer darkness in relation to the carnal believer in great detail. I recommend reading it.
:hug
librarylady

[bek1]

Jesus said all of our tears will be gone, all pain and suffering, we will have no more sorrow.

So how can this be true? Otherwise we might as well have a Catholic Purgatory in place?

No I don't like this analogy at all coming from him, sadly. :(

I like Charles Stanley too but it concerns me that he addresses it like that???

Stanley and Missler are referring to the Millennial Reign (prior to the eternal ages). There will still be tears, regret etc..in the Millennium. It's after the 1000 year reign of Christ that he wipes away every tear (as we transition into the eternal ages). They are two different and distinct ages of time. I agree with Stanley and Missler on this subject. I do not believe "outer darkness" and "weeping and gnashing of teeth" are descriptions of the place of eternal damnation (lake of fire). In Christiandom today, people have it ingrained in their minds to automatically associate those descriptions with the lake of fire, but I believe Christ is talking about something else, in relation to HIS people (ie: virgins, servants, etc...). Most people interpret those passages backwards. They see "weeping and gnashing of teeth" and automatically assume the passage is referring to heathens/unsaved. But the passage needs to be interpreted from the beginning, when "servant" is used, or virgin, this is obviously addressing people in relationship to Jesus..."owned" by Jesus in the case of servant, and "clean and pure" in the case of "virgin". It is from there you then pay attention to the message, in the proper context and can start to see the weeping and gnashing of teeth and outer darkness being something completely different from the Lake of Fire.