Question About Mark

[tom_roberts]

The Parable of the Sower
1 Again Jesus began to teach by the lake. The crowd that gathered round him was so large that he got into a boat and sat in it out on the lake, while all the people were along the shore at the water's edge.
2 He taught them many things by parables, and in his teaching said:

3 Listen! A farmer went out to sow his seed.

4 As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up.

5 Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow.

6 But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root.

7 Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants, so that they did not bear grain.

8 Still other seed fell on good soil. It came up, grew and produced a crop, multiplying thirty, sixty, or even a hundred times.

9 Then Jesus said, He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

10 When he was alone, the Twelve and the others around him asked him about the parables.

11 He told them, The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables

12 so that,

'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'


:scratch

:scratch
I guess Jesus did not come to save everyone?
predestination ?

is that the correct term:idunno

[Jadiri]

Not Really predestination..

He gave it in parables to give them a flash of the light THey chose to be blind to.. The ones who just were curious would be able to play with it for a bit before they lost interest them who were truely interest would continue Heading toward that Bright spot and Find salvation through it in time..

More of a weeding process...

[rabid golfer]

Jesus spoke in parables because the believers, with Jesus help,could come to an understanding of the truth.
The unbelievers refused to see the truth, it was their choice to not believe so even what truth they (unbelievers)did have was taken from them. Matthew 15:10-17

[Hernando]

Tom:

Regardless of what term you use to name it, the truth remains. To loosely paraphrase it:

The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to some and not to others; because if it was given to them in plain terms they might otherwise they might turn and be forgiven.

Could it be that there are some people that where created for destruction?

Am I missing something here?

[Jany]

A parable may be for the purpose of concealing truth from uninterested hearers and revealing it to interested ones. It is simply an illustration to make clear and to throw light upon truth by giving an example and a comparison of it.

The more common word for parable is illustration. <><

[CarolLyn]

Tom:

Regardless of what term you use to name it, the truth remains. To loosely paraphrase it:

The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to some and not to others; because if it was given to them in plain terms they might otherwise they might turn and be forgiven.

Could it be that there are some people that where created for destruction?
Am I missing something here?

Yes, I think it could be...

Romans 9: 21. Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use, and another for common use?
22. What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?
23. And He did so in order that He might make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory,

[Saved by Grace_06]

The Parable of the Sower
1 Again Jesus began to teach by the lake. The crowd that gathered round him was so large that he got into a boat and sat in it out on the lake, while all the people were along the shore at the water's edge.
2 He taught them many things by parables, and in his teaching said:

3 Listen! A farmer went out to sow his seed.

4 As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up.

5 Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow.

6 But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root.

7 Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants, so that they did not bear grain.

8 Still other seed fell on good soil. It came up, grew and produced a crop, multiplying thirty, sixty, or even a hundred times.

9 Then Jesus said, He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

10 When he was alone, the Twelve and the others around him asked him about the parables.

11 He told them, The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables

12 so that,

'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'


:scratch

:scratch
I guess Jesus did not come to save everyone?
predestination ?

is that the correct term:idunno


Basically! Jesus came to save only those who could hear him. Remember how he said "my sheep know me and they follow me?" Well, only sheep hear and understand their sheapard. No one chooses to seek God. No one loves God apart from Christ saving them. No one understands God, and all have turn aside and become altogether worthless before God. God in his everlasting mercy gave saving faith to some, and then gave them grace to believe. If Jesus didn't save some, i.e., the elect/sheep, none would be saved.

[Saved by Grace_06]

Tom:

Regardless of what term you use to name it, the truth remains. To loosely paraphrase it:

The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to some and not to others; because if it was given to them in plain terms they might otherwise they might turn and be forgiven.

Could it be that there are some people that where created for destruction?

Am I missing something here?

Proverb 16:4

"The LORD has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble."

Romans 9:22

"What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction"

God knew that not all would repent and trust in Jesus and still created us. Why? For His glory! We will either glory God by being saved by grace, to the praise of his glorious grace (Eph 2:6), or we will glorify Him when the smoke of our toment goes up for ever and ever to his most holy Justice. In all that God does, he is glorified. "Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways" (Romans 11:33)!

[Big Daddy]

The Parable of the Sower.....
......... 'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'


:scratch

:scratch
I guess Jesus did not come to save everyone?
predestination ?

is that the correct term:idunnoFirst of all I would say that Jesus came to save everyone.
Perhaps something happened that caused Jesus to shift His ministry at some point. He didn't always speak in parables.

Lets take a look.

Open to Matt 12:22, "Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw."

Here is a deaf mute man possessed, who is healed.
This is very important to a Jew.

The Jewish leaders (Pharasee) had two classes of miracles. There were those that anyone could perform if they were so empowered by God, and then there were three that only the expected Messiah could perform.

This one here is one of them.

You see there were demons driven out before Jesus came along, but to do this the demon would be asked his name (my name is Legion). Only the Messiah could drive out a demon that could not speak, and here we have that miracle being performed. Notice the reaction of the learned crowd in the next verse, "And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?"

The Pharisee did not want to loose their power and position to "this" Messiah as He didn't measure up to what they expected. So instead of embrasing Jesus as the Annointed one, they accused Him of being the son of Satan.

This is the unpardonable sin, that they blasphemed the Holy Spirit.

There is a MAJOR shift in Jesus ministry at this point. He now teaches in parables and shuts His teachings out from these "vipers".

Was this predestined? He had to be rejected, so I guess in a way, yes.
Did He do away with the Jew as His choosen people as many modern Christian denoms would use these verse for proof text. Hardly.

In the next chapter Jesus introduces something that had never before been revealed. It was a "mystery" till then.
He also tells us why He now speaks in parables.

Lets look.
Matt 13:10, "And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?"
v11"He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given."

Down in the same chapter we see some parables that are kinda strange.
"Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:
Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof."

A mustard seed grows into a low shrub, birds don't typically build nests in low shrubs. Also, birds are typically used to represent the enemy.

Then we the Kingdom of Heaven being compared to a woman hiding leaven in three measures of meal. Leaven is used to represent sin in scripture.

More about the mystery.
Mat 13:35, "That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world."

Mat 13:45, "Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:"
Pearls? To a Jew they are unclean. Whats going on?
Mat 13:46, "Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it."
Why would a Jew do that?

Oh yeah, back to the question in the OP.
These Jews at that day , that generation, were cursed by Jesus.
Not all Jews, some came to be believers for sure.

But He had to be rejected for God's Gospel of Grace to be revealed to Paul so all the world would be saved.

After the Church is raptured, the Gospel of the Kingdom will once again be preached and God will complete His plan and save Israel too.

[Saved by Grace_06]

First of all I would say that Jesus came to save everyone.

Prehaps you would say that and believe that. However, what did Jesus say?

All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day." - John 6:37-40

I think its clear from Jesus' own words in all the gospel that he came to lay down his life for the sheep (Jn 10:15).

Honestly, brothers and sisters in Christ, we should really GLORY in the fact that God does not love all the same way. For you to assume that God loves those in hell the same way he loves you, is like me insisting that you love and care for your significant other (I dont know if you are married), the same way you would care for and love all people. If you believe that, your Christanity cannot help but be small and weak and fickle. Believe the truth if you are saved. Believe that God has loved you with an everlasting Love and that he will put his fear in you that you will never leave him.

What a love God has for his elect. We ought to really strain ourselves to know it!!