Matthew 24 - The Kingdom of Heaven/God

[2ndcoming]

Mark 9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

Below is you reply to scripture.




In this case, Kingdom of God means the "power of heaven", not "power of the earth". This, btw, was fulfilled at Christ's transfiguration when they beheld His glory in a glorified form.

- JIL

I have never suggested that kingdom of God in this verse was referring to "power of heaven".I was using this verse to show that kingdom of God can be distinct from kingdom of heaven,and in lot of verses,it is referring to kingdom of God on earth when the millennium begins.

Mark 9:1 is a prophecy from Jesus.Many times when Jesus addressed things to the disciples,he was also addressing things into the future.And Mark 9:1 is one of them.

What Jesus was trying to say is that there would be tribulation believers who shall not face death but to enter into the Millennial kingdom when Jesus returns at his second coming.This message is so easily understood by many.

And concerning your interpretation,I have no clue why you believe this scripture has been fulfilled at Jesus' transfiguration.:scratch

[2ndcoming]

I am not wrong.

Going by your logic, that means that Jesus must have given the same sermon on the mount at least twice at different times, and many other parable speeches at least twice at different times. Do you believe this to be true? If not, then you believe as I do....that He only gave these speeches one time. How then do you explain the SAME SPEECH, recorded by multiple people, and end up with different word usage? They all heard the same thing, right?

,
- JIL

I have never suggested that Jesus must have given the sermon twice at different times.This is your assumption.I admit that kingdom of heaven can be referred to kingdom of God,but only according to the context of scripture.Sometimes an interpretation of "kingdom of heaven" being the kingdom in heaven is a better choice,like in Matthew 10:7,Matthew 11:12,while in other case,kingdom of heaven can be equate to kingdom of God like in Mark 1:15.

But when I read your interpretation like Matthew 10:7,and your trying to equate kingdom of heaven with the kingdom of God on earth,I see the error but have to point out.Don't take it too personally.

When you force to interpret kingdom of heaven with kingdom of God on earth,almost on every verse, without referring to the context,I see the error occur and a completely different scenario came out which is against the true meaning of the scripture.

And I still see the ten virgins parable is referring to the inheritance of kingdom in heaven,not the kingdom of God on earth like you and other have suggested,because of the context and because of Jesus has suggested that this event shall take people surprise ,as no one knows the day or hour.Only the event rapture can fit into this criteria.The day of his second coming is easily known,with all the clues given and with the two witnesses,144,000 and the angel in the sky,and will not take people by surprise.

And by the way,Jesus did mention Noah's day and Lot's day that lead to his second coming twice,one in Matthew 24 and Mark 13,the other one in Luke 17 separately,on two different location.

And take this as my response to your question.

Quote:

There is another example of this, but not relating to the Kingdom of Heaven vs Kingdom of God phrases. It is in the Olivet Discourse. Since Jesus only gave the Olivet Discourse speech once to His disciples, how is it that Matthew heard Jesus talking about the end times Great Tribulation in Matthew 24:15-21, yet Luke thought Jesus was talking about the Destruction of the Temple and the dispersion of the Jews in 70 AD in Luke 21:20-24? They heard the same speech, yet they are recording two different events. You will have a difficult time proving that Jesus pulled each disciple aside to tell them about these events in a different way. Plus, if He did this, the Olivet "Discourse" would no longer be a discourse, would it? It would simply be a conversation between two people. No, this was a speech, just like the Sermon on the Mount, and many ears heard the same speech.

End of quote.

[2ndcoming]

Does Matthew 25:1-13 represent the secret event of rapture,the bridegroom who is receiving the bride unto him,or it represents the sheep and goat judgment as many have suggested?I'll leave it for you to decide.,

Matthew 25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps,and went forth to meet the bridegroom. 2And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. 3They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: 4But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. 5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. 6And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. 7Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. 8And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. 9But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. 10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. 12 But he answered, and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. 13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

My preference is verse ten,"and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage:"

It won't be long,until we see Jesus face to face.

I still don't see the sheep and goat judgment in the ten virgins parable,like someone have suggested that it shall take place at the beginning of millennium.

What I see is a description of the bridegroom receiving his bride unto him.

My favorite verse is still the same:the bridegroom came;and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage.

Isn't this marriage with bridegroom our hope,our want,and has been waiting for so many years?

[Buzzardhut]

I still don't see the sheep and goat judgment in the ten virgins parable,like someone have suggested that it shall take place at the beginning of millennium.

What I see is a description of the bridegroom receiving his bride unto him.

My favorite verse is still the same:the bridegroom came;and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage.

Isn't this marriage with bridegroom our hope,our want,and has been waiting for so many years?

The judgment of S&G is before the millennium

[acceptedintheBeloved]

I still don't see the sheep and goat judgment in the ten virgins parable,like someone have suggested that it shall take place at the beginning of millennium.

What I see is a description of the bridegroom receiving his bride unto him.

My favorite verse is still the same:the bridegroom came;and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage.

Isn't this marriage with bridegroom our hope,our want,and has been waiting for so many years?

Well, that is IF He plans to marry FIVE virgins. But the Bride is ONE.

She comes back with the Bridegroom (though not mentioned here), for the "wedding feast" (on the earth).

I don't think this is the "Sheep and Goat Judgment [pertaining to the Nations/Gentiles and how they aided 'His brethren/Israel']," but more likely pertaining more specifically to Israel (as I believe all parables in the Olivet Discourse do).


Also, Matthew 22:1-13NASB is a parable about "a king, who gave a wedding feast for his son."

Matthew 22:2NASB, and Matthew 22:4NASB especially, talk about "the food that is prepared for this wedding feast."
Wedding feasts/festivities were held "7 days" AFTER the wedding of the bridegroom and bride.
(Many equate the "wedding feast" with the beginning of the Millennial Kingdom, as do I.)

Matthew 22:10-13NASB tell about the "guest" who wasn't wearing "the wedding clothes" that he was supposed to be wearing (and some say, are the responsibility of the bridegroom to provide for the "guests")... the "guests" weren't the Bride, either.

Matthew 22:13NASB "cast him into the outer darkness... there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth" seems to indicate to me that this takes place in the same time frame as ("servants/buried talent" in) Matthew 25:30 ("cast... into outer darkness... weeping and gnashing of teeth)... which is just before the Millennial Kingdom... (as I believe all of these take place at that time... and pertain to Israel's [earthly] kingdom, promised to Israel, though believing Gentiles ["Sheep"] will also enter).

That's how I understand it. :hat

[2ndcoming]

Well, that is IF He plans to marry FIVE virgins. But the Bride is ONE.

She comes back with the Bridegroom (though not mentioned here), for the "wedding feast" (on the earth).

I don't think this is the "Sheep and Goat Judgment [pertaining to the Nations/Gentiles and how they aided 'His brethren/Israel']," but more likely pertaining more specifically to Israel (as I believe all parables in the Olivet Discourse do).


Also, Matthew 22:1-13NASB is a parable about "a king, who gave a wedding feast for his son."

Matthew 22:2NASB, and Matthew 22:4NASB especially, talk about "the food that is prepared for this wedding feast."
Wedding feasts/festivities were held "7 days" AFTER the wedding of the bridegroom and bride.
(Many equate the "wedding feast" with the beginning of the Millennial Kingdom, as do I.)

Matthew 22:10-13NASB tell about the "guest" who wasn't wearing "the wedding clothes" that he was supposed to be wearing (and some say, are the responsibility of the bridegroom to provide for the "guests")... the "guests" weren't the Bride, either.

Matthew 22:13NASB "cast him into the outer darkness... there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth" seems to indicate to me that this takes place in the same time frame as ("servants/buried talent" in) Matthew 25:30 ("cast... into outer darkness... weeping and gnashing of teeth)... which is just before the Millennial Kingdom... (as I believe all of these take place at that time... and pertain to Israel's [earthly] kingdom, promised to Israel, though believing Gentiles ["Sheep"] will also enter).

That's how I understand it. :hat

Can you be more specific with the ten virgins parable?

Who are the five wise,and who are the five foolish one?

And can you quote scripture to support your view that the marriage with the lamb shall take place on earth?

To understand your view throughly will help me to understand your comment better,without any vague.

Thanks.

[2ndcoming]

According to the book of Revelation,the marriage supper of the Lamb shall take place after the destruction of the great city Babylon,but before Jesus returns to earth with saints,and rules the nations with a rod of iron.


The destruction of the great city Babylon.

Revelation 18:21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all. 22And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; 23And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. 24And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

The marriage supper of the Lamb.

Revelation 19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God: 2For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand. 3And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever. 4And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia. 5And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great. 6And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

7Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. 8And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

9And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God. 10And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

The return of Jesus with the saints,to smite the nations,and rules them with a rod of iron.

Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Since I believe the destruction of the city Babylon shall take place near the end of tribulation,and according to Revelation,the marriage supper of the Lamb is immediately followed by the return of our Lord and his saints,my belief is the marriage supper of the Lamb shall take place in the last or the seventh year of the tribulation.

And this marriage supper of the Lamb shall take place in heaven,unlike someone has suggested that it shall take place on earth.

[JesusIsLord]

Can you be more specific with the ten virgins parable?

Who are the five wise,and who are the five foolish one?

And can you quote scripture to support your view that the marriage with the lamb shall take place on earth?

To understand your view throughly will help me to understand your comment better,without any vague.

Thanks.

Well, I cant be 100% sure on Accepted's view, but I am pretty sure we see this the same way. I will give how I see this, and Accepted....if we differ, you can chime in.

The parable of the 10 Virgins (Bridesmaids, not "brides") is an analogy to people in the Tribulation. There were 5 wise virgins and 5 foolish virgins. The 5 wise virgins made themselves "ready" by purchasing oil for their lamps (symbolizing the Holy Spirit, which alludes to the fact that they have accepted Christ as their savior). The 5 foolish virgins waited and did not "watch and make themselves ready" and had no oil in their lamps. The Bridegroom then came at an hour which they did not expect (even in the Tribulation people cannot know the exact day and hour of His return....only that He comes in the "evening" Zechariah 14:6. No one can know the exact day or hour either due to Daniel 12 [1260 days, 1290 days or 1335 days from the beginning of the Great Trib?] ). No one knows of this day.....it will be "a Day known only to the Lord": Zechariah 14:7).

The 5 wise virgins hear the midnight cry and are ready with their lamp wicks trimmed and full of oil, along with extra jars. The 5 foolish virgins had not made themselves ready, so they sought to buy the oil, but it was too late and nobody was selling it (ran out of time to accept Christ). As the 5 wise virgins join the wedding procession, they entered through the Bridegroom's door to participate in the wedding banquet, and it was shut behind them. When the foolish ones came up to the door, He says, "I never knew you".

Couple things about this that are of note:

1) The door was shut behind them, never to open for the outsiders again
2) The Bridegroom was heading to the wedding banquet, not the wedding.....that had already taken place. Understanding the Jewish Wedding model as it was done back then is extremely helpful to understanding this section of scripture.
3) He tells the foolish virgins, "I never knew you", meaning it was obviously too late to ever be "known" by Him again. They will be kept outside the doors forever.
4) Notice in the beginning while they were all waiting for the Bridegroom that they "all became drowsy and fell asleep"....even the 5 wise virgins.

Now for the questions:

1) If this was about the Rapture, how is it that there are no foolish that are ever allowed to enter through the doors? Revelation 7 speaks of a "great multitude than no man could count" coming to Christ taking place after the Rapture....they will enter through this same door (metaphorically speaking....Christ is the "open door") that is spoken of in Matthew 25.

2) If they are entering into the "wedding banquet", it stands to reason that the wedding itself has already taken place, no? In Jewish culture, the wedding would usually take place 7 days before the banquet.

3) Though this parable doesnt explicitly state this, I think there is another parable that has to do with this same "banquet (Matthew 22:1-14). I wont go over the entire passage, but there is a man caught in the banquet without his wedding atire on (he did not make himself ready). Jesus tells "His attendants": "Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth". It is presumable that this is the same wedding banquet spoken of in Matthew 25, as there is no such other "future" wedding banquet that He talks about; therefore it is presumable that being "thrown outside" is to be thrown out the same doors that the wise virgins had entered. Outside those doors, according to Matthew 22, are darkness and "weeping and gnashing of teeth", which is always an illustration of Hell. So the link is that to be outside the doors is to be in the place of "weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Hell). Once you are in Hell, there is no escaping or getting out: Every other relevant passage in the Bible corroborates this (Like the story of Lazarus and the Rich man: Luke 16:19-31).

4) Are true Christians "drowsy" today? Have we "fallen asleep"? No, I dont believe this is an indication of True Christians.



We have already made ourselves "ready" and are awaiting His return. I believe this to be a reference to people who have lost interest in Jesus, or who dont believe in Him. The Rapture will happen and carry away all true Christians and the 5 wise virgins (those in the trib who wake up from their slumber and make themselves ready) will come to their senses and follow the Lord, waiting for Him for approximately 7 years to physically return to earth, where the marriage supper of the Lamb (wedding banquet) takes place. We, the Bride, will have been in heaven with Him for 7 years prior to His earthly return and will be taking His Bride with Him back to earth to have the wedding banquet.

I dont see how it can be any other way, given that the Lord is following the model of the Jewish wedding ceremony with His Church (the Bride).

Hope this clarifies our position on the 10 Virgins.

God bless,
- JIL

[2ndcoming]

According to the book of Revelation,the marriage supper of the Lamb shall take place after the destruction of the great city Babylon,but before Jesus returns to earth with saints,and rules the nations with a rod of iron.


The destruction of the great city Babylon.

Revelation 18:21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all. 22And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; 23And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. 24And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

The marriage supper of the Lamb.

Revelation 19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God: 2For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand. 3And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever. 4And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia. 5And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great. 6And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

7Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. 8And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

9And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God. 10And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

The return of Jesus with the saints,to smite the nations,and rules them with a rod of iron.

Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Since I believe the destruction of the city Babylon shall take place near the end of tribulation,and according to Revelation,the marriage supper of the Lamb is immediately followed by the return of our Lord and his saints,my belief is the marriage supper of the Lamb shall take place in the last or the seventh year of the tribulation.

And this marriage supper of the Lamb shall take place in heaven,unlike someone has suggested that it shall take place on earth.

This is another solid evidence that post-tribulation view has no place in God's time-line of end time events.The church is already in heaven and undergoing the marriage supper of the Lamb,right after the destruction of the city Babylon.And immediately after the marriage supper of the lamb,they return with Christ when Christ smites the nations ,and rules them with a rod of iron.

For them to hold the post-tribulation view,they need to come up with a " good answer" to challenge the book of Revelation.

[JesusIsLord]

Since I believe the destruction of the city Babylon shall take place near the end of tribulation,and according to Revelation,the marriage supper of the Lamb is immediately followed by the return of our Lord and his saints,my belief is the marriage supper of the Lamb shall take place in the last or the seventh year of the tribulation.

And this marriage supper of the Lamb shall take place in heaven,unlike someone has suggested that it shall take place on earth.

I think you're reading this wrong. When the we shout "For the wedding of the Lamb has come" (Rev 19:7), it means the time has come for the wedding to conclude (remember, the wedding takes place with the Bridegroom and the Bride for 7 days) and be made complete. Then shall come the wedding banquet, or the wedding supper of the lamb. As per the parables, the Bridegroom must come back (after the wedding is concluded) before the banquet can begin.....He has to gather all the wise virgins who are called (invited) to it.

So it goes:

1) Rapture (beginning of 7 day (year) wedding
2) 2nd Coming, taking His Bride along with Him
3) Gathering the wise virgins (sheep) on earth who survived the trib
4) Casting out the 5 foolish virgins (casting out of the goats) to Hell
5) Wedding supper of the Lamb begins, along with the Millennium

God bless,
- JIL