Matthew 24 - The Kingdom of Heaven/God

[LaMontre]

Thanks for the reply. Would you mind describing the defilement which took place in 70 AD?

As I understand it, a pig was slaughtered in the temple.


I thought the defilement is to be the AOD standing in the Holy Place AND the man of lawlessness who opposes himself and exalts himself above very so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God displaying himself as being God.

When did these two things happen in 70 AD?

They didn't.

[HehasmagnifiedHisWord]

Enjoyed each posters contribution to this thread! There are different views on this thread and I am impressed on how civil each one is to each other! I believe, there are several prophecies in this chapter that has not been fulfilled. I am aware that there will be deception,deceiving,and betrayal during the endtimes. Is there any thoughts of how the Devil will use these to his advantage in the end? I agree with the poster who said that this is an interesting thread! I am looking forward to some more good read and will be learning from you all! May the Lord bless us as we study this chapter from God's word!!

[Surrender]

As I understand it, a pig was slaughtered in the temple.



They didn't.Thank you again for your reply. I thought the pig thing was during the time of Antiochus Epiphenes (sp?), so I looked it up and found this...

"In this prophecy, Jesus said, “Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet...then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains...” (Matt. 24:15-16). In calling this “the abomination of desolation,” Jesus was referring back to an event in 175 B.C., when Antiochus Epiphanes, a Greek conqueror, defiled the temple by slaughtering a pig on the altar (Daniel 11:31), then slaughtered many of the Jews in Jerusalem. When Jesus gave this prophecy, He was telling His listeners that such an event would happen again, as part of the last days. Paul goes on to describe this defiler as one who declares himself to be God, or in the place of God, in 2 Thess. 2:4.

Although the Romans destroyed the temple in A.D. 70 and there was a great slaughter, and many Jews did, in fact, flee to the mountains as Jesus foretold in Matthew 24, there was no such pronouncement of godship and no such defilement of the temple. While the temple was torn down, this event did not fulfill Jesus' prophecy to the letter. It was fulfilling a different prophecy: “Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone [of the temple] shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down” (Matt. 24:2). In Matt. 24:15-21, in describing the abomination of desolation and the Great Tribulation, Jesus was clearly referring to a very specific future event that was not fulfilled in A.D. 70."

http://www.strongtowerpublishing.com/preterist.htm

[Surrender]

x

[LaMontre]

Thank you again for your reply. I thought the pig thing was during the time of Antiochus Epiphenes (sp?), so I looked it up and found this...

"In this prophecy, Jesus said, “Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet...then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains...” (Matt. 24:15-16). In calling this “the abomination of desolation,” Jesus was referring back to an event in 175 B.C., when Antiochus Epiphanes, a Greek conqueror, defiled the temple by slaughtering a pig on the altar (Daniel 11:31), then slaughtered many of the Jews in Jerusalem. When Jesus gave this prophecy, He was telling His listeners that such an event would happen again, as part of the last days. Paul goes on to describe this defiler as one who declares himself to be God, or in the place of God, in 2 Thess. 2:4.

Although the Romans destroyed the temple in A.D. 70 and there was a great slaughter, and many Jews did, in fact, flee to the mountains as Jesus foretold in Matthew 24, there was no such pronouncement of godship and no such defilement of the temple. While the temple was torn down, this event did not fulfill Jesus' prophecy to the letter. It was fulfilling a different prophecy: “Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone [of the temple] shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down” (Matt. 24:2). In Matt. 24:15-21, in describing the abomination of desolation and the Great Tribulation, Jesus was clearly referring to a very specific future event that was not fulfilled in A.D. 70."

http://www.strongtowerpublishing.com/preterist.htm

Interesting, I guess I had my wires crossed. At any rate, 70AD cannot qualify for what Jesus describes in Matthew 24. The interpretation simply falls apart.

[LaMontre]

So, I think we stopped here:
Mat 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

Of course this can also be said to have happened before 70AD....until we read the rest of the context....

Mat 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )

So these are clearly 70th week events, and Jesus is up to the end of the first 3 and 1/2 years here, as is confirmed by Paul, who obviously took the following directly from Jesus teaching:

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

See Mat 24:4, 10 & 15 for the "be not decieved", the "falling away", and the revelation of anti-christ, all in the same order.

2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

Apparently this information, which was given orally, has aspects to it that we do not have in this letter. But thats another study.

2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

So it is clear this passage in Matthew is about the 70th week, and was passed on, most likely orally, to all the Apostles, in much the same form as we have it today. It is an account, iin order, of the events of the coming 70th week, and here, we are up to the mid point.

[Surrender]

Interesting, I guess I had my wires crossed. At any rate, 70AD cannot qualify for what Jesus describes in Matthew 24. The interpretation simply falls apart.I have to agree with that.

[jikoklol]

As I understand it, a pig was slaughtered in the temple.

Except this time around it was humans that were slaughtered in the temple.

The Zealots defiled the temple with all kinds of murders which included the priests (Wars 5.1.2-3 (http://raptureready.com/resource/fj/war-5.htm)).

The Idumeans slaughtered 8500 people in the outer temple.

And now the outer temple was all of it overflowed with blood; and that day, as it came on, they saw eight thousand five hundred dead bodies there. (Wars 4.5.1)

They even killed Zecharias, the Son of Baruch in the temple (Wars 4.5.4 (http://www.preteristarchive.com/JewishWars/jo-4-5-4_zecharias.html)) They continued to defile the temple by using the sacred sacraments of the temple for themselves (Wars 5.13.6).

These abominations by the Zealots prompted the high priest Phanni to say
"Certainly it had been good for me to die before I had seen the house of God full of so many abominations, or these sacred places, that ought not to be trodden upon at random, filled with the feet of these blood-shedding villains...

Even the Roman soldiers committed an abominable act within the temple grounds.


And now the Romans, upon the flight of the seditious into the city, and upon the burning of the holy house itself, and of all the buildings lying round about it, brought their ensigns to the temple* (1) and set them over against its eastern gate; and there did they offer sacrifices to them, and there did they make Titus Imperator (2), with the greatest acclamations of joy (Wars 6.6.1 (http://www.preteristarchive.com/JewishWars/jo-6-6-1.html)).

[Surrender]

Enjoyed each posters contribution to this thread! There are different views on this thread and I am impressed on how civil each one is to each other! I believe, there are several prophecies in this chapter that has not been fulfilled. I am aware that there will be deception,deceiving,and betrayal during the endtimes. Is there any thoughts of how the Devil will use these to his advantage in the end? I agree with the poster who said that this is an interesting thread! I am looking forward to some more good read and will be learning from you all! May the Lord bless us as we study this chapter from God's word!!Well, if LaMontre is correct in that the catching up is right about the time the AC goes into the temple to claim he is God, maybe the AC will take full responsibility for the catching up. (Not sure if that is what you are saying LaMontre but it sounds like it could be).

But LaMontre, I am confused about one point. The gospel of the kingdom is preached and then the end shall come (end being 3 1/2 yr. point, right?). Would you say the gospel of the kingdom and the gospel of grace are somewhat different from one another in presentation?

[Big Daddy]

What a great thread.

Can I add some thoughts?

First, I will state that I believe Mat.24 is all about yet future events.
Jesus is speaking to Jews, and He is speaking of the Kingdom of Heaven.

I popped back to the previous chap. to get the lead in to Mat.24, and I read how He is speaking to the multitude and His disciples. He really lays it to the religious leaders of that time, giving them some "woes" and really telling it like it is. I take it many would have been offended.

Jesus says that He is going to send some to preach to the Jews and these "leaders" will:
"and [some] of them ye shall kill and crucify; and [some] of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute [them] from city to city:"

The Jewish leaders were suppose to have their people ready for the Messiah, and this Chap.23 tells us that they didn't and that Jesus holds the leaders accountable, and also the people that blindly followed them.

In the last couple verse He says a couple things that are interesting and set the scene for Chap.24.

First there is
Mat 23:38, "Behold, your house is left unto you desolate."

This is the end of God's dealing with the Jews till He is done with building His Church. You can see that although there is a group that He just got done condemning, the group that will crucify, scourge, and persecute, from city to city, by His Grace He will call out one man called Saul to reveal a mystery. Paul will bring the Gospel of Grace to the Gentiles.

Be it noted that Paul, by his own admission, was the chief persecutor of the Jewish followers of Christ.

Once the times of the Gentiles are full, God will once again shift His attention back to His people, the Jew.

This is what we see in the next Chap.24.
This is where it picks up again God starts to deal with His people again.

There is a whole chunk of time (dispensation?) where the Jew is set aside and God deals with all the other nations.

This is the white space between v38 and v39 in Mat.23.

The last verse on Chap.23 is pointing to the end of the Trib, where God's Elect, those Jews that escape all that Jesus lays out in the next Chap.24 will call on the Name of God for Salvation and and when they see Jesus coming, the will in fact say: "Blessed [is] he that cometh in the name of the Lord."

If you want to see an account of what takes place in 70ad, read Luke's account in Luke 21,12-24
I believe Graceforme brought this out early in this thread but no one picked up on it.

Luke gives a very similiarly worded account, sounds just like Mat.24, except there is a very subtle difference as to the audience, and the timing.
Luke's account is clearly speaking of Jewish believers (Christians) that escape the destruction of the temple and the fulfillment of the prophesy that Jesus gave in Mat.23.

Just my thoughts.
Carry on.